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Surprising Things About School

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Re: Surprising Things About School

#61
post #13

I disagree with #6. I always felt like getting a degree is such a huge waste of time, but I need to jump through this hoop to get a job for which I didn't require much more knowledge than the programming knowledge I had after high school (self-taught). But then again I went to school in Europe with cheap tuition, so time is the biggest investment here.

I remember graduating from a four year school, and my girlfriend asked me, "How--do--you feel? Proud?"

I looked at her, and said, "It was a waste of time."

I said, "Looking back, I there were probably only eight courses that I think will help me?". (I finished because there was a health school I wanted to get into, and didn't want her getting one up on me. Plus--I didn't want to work as hard as my dad did. I remember having to say, "I want to help people when I applied to the professional school. In all honestly science was really easy, and I didn't want to break my back doing an honest job. Yes--I said it, and so many of my peers were frauds. Frauds that used The Placebo effect as their main tool, but were to in denial to admit it.)

Back to my college love. She was going to a UC, and was obnoxiously proud of it. She always had to announce what school she was in, but always left out the CC that barely passed her. (At time, where people didn't brag. I'm so out of now, I guess bragging is ok now? Back in the day, it was a no-no.)

I said it for two reasons. One--being it was the truth. Two--she was just irritating.

For three years, I had to hear about her dream of becoming a Doctor; with her C average, and cheating off me in chemistry.

I remember the last day we were together.

It was the day she asked me if I was proud. I do remember thinking, I'm so glad I finished before you. A lot of you are thinking, another misogynist?

No--I just was with the wrong person. She was stunning, but cold, had the emotional depth of a reptile, and calculating. I turned down so many opportunities while in school because I was with her.

Back to school. I really felt it was a waste of time; But I knew the worst day at school was so much better than any day working. That is a truism for myself.

If I didn't have a nervous breakdown, I would have stayed in school as long as possible. Every day, you get to look at those beautiful girls, and maybe learn something new? (My breakdown was unrelated to school. Just could stop thinking about that weird pain on my head. I was just sure it must be a brain tumor. And I couldn't quite figure out death, while delaying gratification. A little advice, there's no delay of gratification while in most schools.)

If I had a kid, I would tell him to stay in school as long as possible. I would also tell her to network, even if the rich kids make you want to up chuck.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#62
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you measuring the same level of motivation? From my anecdotal experience, the people taking the "live, guided course" have committed to: - synchronous attendance at a particular time, probably at a particular place - probably a dollar investment - face-to-face contact with instructor - near-traditional learning environment People taking a MOOC have committed to: - browsing on an electronic device There's gene…

There have been quite a few studies that have done this in a scientific manner. Internally we have taken sets of students that apply to our free “mini code bootcamp” and sent half to an archived version published each night and send the other half a live link that becomes an archive each night. So we didn’t control scientifically, jsut an AB test, but the shift has been breathtaking. We can also take students that ar…

As long which ones you send to each link is determined entirely randomly, you have indeed done a "scientific" (i.e., statistically valid) control.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See note 9.

Note 9 is why I gave up trying to mentor developers. Relevant background: I've held a career that is a dream of high profile projects: game studio owner at age 17, beta developer for original Mac in '83; on Mandelbrot & DeVanney's original Fractal research team, 3D graphics research community during the 80's; engineer on the 3DO and then original PlayStation OS teams; 15 years as a lead game developer of major releas…

You should chat with us. Filtering for interest is important, but is very possible. We have 300+ very motivated students enrolled right now from thousands of interested applicants.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#64
post #60

"17. People rely mainly on their parents for advice on what to do about education, and that has to be among the worst places to go for educational advice" This one certainly hits me hard. With a mother who dropped out of university and a father who didn't go myself and my sister both have good degrees (she's a newly qualified Vet and I'm a startup's birth and death out of uni), and nowhere to get decent advice. I kno…

My single working mother had no bandwidth to help me with getting into college. Neither of my parents had a dime to give me. Despite both my parents being college educated and emphasizing its importance, they had little practical advice or assistance to give. I knew nothing. I ended up applying to one state university, in-state, commuting long distance, not taking any loan, and working 30 hours a week to afford it. I…

Most advice parents or anyone who went to college before say, the mid 90s or before is fairly useless anyway, unless it's study advice. The job market, costs of college, and many other factors are incredibly different.

Just as an example, I had a friend in your situation but whose parents encouraged him to go to an expensive school and not worry too much what to study. You can probably guess what would've happened if he didn't end up doing his own research instead.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My single working mother had no bandwidth to help me with getting into college. Neither of my parents had a dime to give me. Despite both my parents being college educated and emphasizing its importance, they had little practical advice or assistance to give. I knew nothing. I ended up applying to one state university, in-state, commuting long distance, not taking any loan, and working 30 hours a week to afford it. I…

Most advice parents or anyone who went to college before say, the mid 90s or before is fairly useless anyway, unless it's study advice. The job market, costs of college, and many other factors are incredibly different. Just as an example, I had a friend in your situation but whose parents encouraged him to go to an expensive school and not worry too much what to study. You can probably guess what would've happened if…

Like anything else, they should be able to teach you to fish. I.e. find out where to get the info you need.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#66
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much smaller fraction of the population earned a college degree 30-40 years ago so it was more of a differentiator. It's still pretty clear that a (4 year) degree changes access to jobs, I guess it's less clear that it will matter for a given person.

A 4-year still matters a lot. The issue is that a 4-year from a state school has almost as much value as a 4-year from an Ivy League. A prestigious university on your resume will open a few extra doors, but in most disciplines it’s just not worth the extra cost. The University of Washington is $5.5k/semester (resident tuition). If you’re spending 20k/semester, you better be getting a degree from somewhere very presti…

For people where the $15K difference matters a great deal, the tuition at the elite school is increasingly likely to be greatly reduced or free.

Such policy is even trickling down to public schools with big endowments:

https://goblueguarantee.umich.edu/

The place where people get killed is when they go to a private school that is expensive and not particularly an academic standout (of course there's many more mediocre private schools than elite private schools).

Re: Surprising Things About School

#67
post #13

I disagree with #6. I always felt like getting a degree is such a huge waste of time, but I need to jump through this hoop to get a job for which I didn't require much more knowledge than the programming knowledge I had after high school (self-taught). But then again I went to school in Europe with cheap tuition, so time is the biggest investment here.

"I always felt like getting a degree is such a huge waste of time" is a humblebrag. There, I said it.

I don't think its a humblebrag. I take it as someone who wants to get on and code but the system requires a hoop to be jumped through.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most advice parents or anyone who went to college before say, the mid 90s or before is fairly useless anyway, unless it's study advice. The job market, costs of college, and many other factors are incredibly different. Just as an example, I had a friend in your situation but whose parents encouraged him to go to an expensive school and not worry too much what to study. You can probably guess what would've happened if…

Like anything else, they should be able to teach you to fish. I.e. find out where to get the info you need.

Most middle class parents who aren't first or second generation immigrants won't even know the answer to this. To them, the answer is "high school counselor" or another similarly uninformed high school individual. Maybe millennial parents will be the first to recommend internet forums or similar.

Again, for them, it was a very different world.

Re: Surprising Things About School

#69
post #16

The failure of MOOCs #10 is a failure of metric measurement. In the old days if you wanted to learn something, often you'd pay $20 to $50 for a book. For example, Amazon order search claims that somewhere I have a copy of "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming" by Norvig, which is supposed to be a decent book in the field, cool. Ironically maybe that IS the textbook for the famous AI MOOC class, I don't kn…

OP here (shocked to see this on HN): The context is missing but is important. When I say MOOCs have failed I mean something very specific: asynchronous online learning has proven to be so dramatically less effective than synchronous, guided learning. Better than nothing existing, but we’re learning that only a small subset of people are able to effectively learn from them. In other words, take a random sample of 100…

> 90% will complete a live, guided course. 5% will complete a MOOC of the same quality.

What does complete mean here? Complete within a given timeframe? Doesn't that miss the entire gain that MOOCs bring to the table? Which is that education becomes a lifelong endeavour instead of something you try and fit into a few years and, for most, never return to again?

Re: Surprising Things About School

#70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See note 9.

Note 9 is why I gave up trying to mentor developers. Relevant background: I've held a career that is a dream of high profile projects: game studio owner at age 17, beta developer for original Mac in '83; on Mandelbrot & DeVanney's original Fractal research team, 3D graphics research community during the 80's; engineer on the 3DO and then original PlayStation OS teams; 15 years as a lead game developer of major releas…

What was the "let's see if this person is serious" task?
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