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Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

fortune.com

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Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#101

Post by KMag »

csallen wrote: post #34
koolba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not. Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague. What’s makes this particularly heinous is the trust we place as a society in medical providers. The vast majority of people will take whatever medicine a doctor prescribes. No questions asked. Abusing that position of power is sickening.

> Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague. This is the exact kind of emotional thinking that makes it so easy to jack up sentencing to an unreasonable degree. It's why we spent so many millennia of human history insensitive to the torture and abuse of our fellow man so long as he could be labeled a criminal. First, you're comparing a s…

This. Deterrent effectiveness is quantifiable and repeated psychological studies show that increasing the expected chance of getting caught is a much higher deterrent value than increasing the expected number of years behind bars.

One's subjective feeling of deterrence is strongly influenced by one's natural subconscious desire for mob revenge. Cultural change away from mob revenge starts with changing the dialogue.

The cost to society is roughly linear in the number of years behind bars, and the deterrent factor gets dramatically sub-linear pretty quickly as number of years behind bars increases. That money spent on guards, etc. and opportunity cost (including lost taxable income) of having a potentially productive member of society behind bars are better spent on better monitoring and other measures that increase the likelihood that offenders are prosecuted. Increasing publicity of convictions would presumably also be a pretty cheap way to reduce crime by increasing the perceived chances of getting caught.

I would really like to see it be a common thing for criminals to cut plea deals including recording public service announcements publicizing that they got caught. Though, this would also probably make it harder for reformed ex-convicts to escape their pasts.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#102

Post by tinokid »

koolba wrote: post #16
dcposch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just means we should treat low level criminals humanely. Four years is plenty. The thing where decade plus sentences are fairly common is unique in the first world: only in America. It’s barbaric and embarrassing. The science is pretty unambiguous—a high likelihood of being caught and punished is a better deterrent than a low-probability but larger punishment. So I don’t want to see this doctor get a 40-year sen…

It’s really not. Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague. What’s makes this particularly heinous is the trust we place as a society in medical providers. The vast majority of people will take whatever medicine a doctor prescribes. No questions asked. Abusing that position of power is sickening.

This is absolutely correct and should not have been downvoted.

It is the abuse of a position of trust that aggravates this crime relative to that of a simple outlaw street dealer.

Commenters who are concerned with the effect on the convict's reputation and future employability are simply not in touch with reality....this was a grave breach of the basic ethics of the medical profession and seriously harmed the innocent patients involved. There is no return to work after something like this...any more than with a scientist who falsifies data, a teacher who sleeps with minor students, a lawyer who steals from escrow, etc.

I find it highly disturbing that there is more discussion in this thread as to the effect on the doctor's return on investment from his medical degree rather than on the individuals who bodies were damaged by someone they were supposed to be able to trust.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#103

Post by frozenport »

rdtsc wrote: post #81
anonymous5133 wrote: post #10

FYI, there is a new episode on american greed which pretty much shows how these type of operations worked. Insys basically gave the kickbacks by having the doctors give "speeches" but it turns out no speeches were given and the doctors got the checks anyways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2WBKkyFpRo

> it turns out no speeches were given and the doctors got the checks anyways. True, but it's not like if they did, the situation would be that much better. In a way for them they screwed up because the actually didn't bother playing the bribery sham all the way through like say political candidates do. For example, Hillary Clinton made $3M from speeches to large banks in just 2 years: https://theintercept.com/2016/01…

Actually the content was sufficiently controversial to get her in trouble.

Specifically, reinforcing the need to have two personas, one when appealing to a general audience and another when talking business. This, along with the defense of free trade, made her look like a two-timming scumbag.

Kinda like if Bernie said, "my image is a sham, I use to trick people"

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#105

Post by skookumchuck »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #50
skookumchuck wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are responsible for the death of others Are they? Those others knowingly and voluntarily took those drugs.

Addiction is not voluntary.

Many addicts have overcome their addiction. As far as I know, none of them succeeded by blaming others. They succeeded by taking responsibility.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#106

Post by selectodude »

stordoff wrote: post #62
jjeaff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, fentanyl is more dangerous than heroin and a large amount of heroin overdose have supposedly been because fentanyl was mixed in with the heroin unbeknownst to the user.

It's more dangerous in street drugs because it is potent at extremely low doses, so poorly mixed drugs can contain fatal doses very easily. In a controlled setting, where the dose is precisely known, that is not an issue. I did some reading of fentanyl vs. morphine a while ago, and found that fentanyl is often preferred for acute pain due to faster onset, shorter duration (which may make controlling adverse reactions…

Fentanyl is also far more addictive due to its rapid onset and short duration of effect. Not that they give that stuff to anybody other than cancer patients and those undergoing anesthesia. But in theory it’s more dangerous.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#107

Post by csallen »

tinokid wrote: post #102
koolba wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not. Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague. What’s makes this particularly heinous is the trust we place as a society in medical providers. The vast majority of people will take whatever medicine a doctor prescribes. No questions asked. Abusing that position of power is sickening.

This is absolutely correct and should not have been downvoted. It is the abuse of a position of trust that aggravates this crime relative to that of a simple outlaw street dealer. Commenters who are concerned with the effect on the convict's reputation and future employability are simply not in touch with reality....this was a grave breach of the basic ethics of the medical profession and seriously harmed the innocen…

Nobody is "concerned" about the convict's reputation and future employability. You are misreading people's statements and thus misunderstanding their points. Namely, that the justice system serves a greater purpose than simply making you and me feel better and causing harm to perpetrators.

What point is there in discussing the so-obvious-it-goes-without-saying good-bad polarity of this situation? If we myopically give in to our emotions, rather than dispassionately examine the best course of action, then we'll miss an opportunity to improve the system and deter future incidents.

Stated another way, by attempting to redirect the course of this conversation, you are saying that virtue signaling by pitying current victims and demonizing the perp is more important than preventing future victims. If anything is highly disturbing, it's that.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#108

Post by kamaal »

ggg9990 wrote: post #85
rdtsc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it turns out no speeches were given and the doctors got the checks anyways. True, but it's not like if they did, the situation would be that much better. In a way for them they screwed up because the actually didn't bother playing the bribery sham all the way through like say political candidates do. For example, Hillary Clinton made $3M from speeches to large banks in just 2 years: https://theintercept.com/2016/01…

It’s not clear what it really is. People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to Hollywood celebrities for appearances too, with no expectations of political favors.

Attaching big names to your cause gives it a lot of legitimacy(at-least the perception is that way), May be that is why.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#109

Post by kamaal »

esturk wrote: post #39
owly wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deterrent and long term way to keep patients safe is not just the 4 years in prison, it is losing his medical license in perpetuity throughout the USA. Not sure if his sentence includes this but it should be in public records. My PCP in MA was busted for a different charge and lost his ability to practice medicine FOREVER throughout the USA. Way to throw all those years of med school in the dustbin!

He did lose his medical license but he's also 63. After he's out, he's most likely going to retire.

>>but he's also 63.

It sounds so foolish when people so close to retirement take undue risks and ruin it all at the end.

Greed can be a dangerous bait at times.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#110

Post by matheusmoreira »

ransom1538 wrote: post #70
chime wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as pill mills are, wouldn't 'Pain Management' clinics rate high in this query since they give out pills to manage legitimate pain? I have multiple herniated cervical disks and am going in for surgery soon because the pain is debilitating and unbearable. Among other specialists, I saw a pain management doctor to understand my non-surgical options. Many people with my condition choose to not get implants or disk…

Yes! 'Pain Management' would be a high subscriber. But being the top 5 in the US? Maybe, but that is pretty strange - definitely worth a DEA trip. 'Family Medicine' in the top 40? Hm....

There's absolutely nothing wrong with prescribing opioids to people who may benefit from their use. What's wrong is putting the interests of big pharma above your patient. This kind of corruption damages the trust that people place in the medical profession. That's why the doctor lost his license. The article even says:

>You in effect sold your medical license to a pharmaceutical company

The DEA should have nothing to do with this. Treating doctors like potential drug dealers is going to make them extremely anxious about prescribing any kind of drug with high abuse potential. They invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of their life on their medical license and residency programs; do you think they're going to risk it with the threat of the DEA busting them? The DEA getting involved is going to directly harm patients with chronic pain (opioid users) and people with ADHD (amphetamine users).

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