Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

fortune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 129 posts

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#31

Post by owly »

dcposch wrote: post #7
1ris wrote: post #6

How many years would a street dealer have gotten? 40 years?

That just means we should treat low level criminals humanely. Four years is plenty. The thing where decade plus sentences are fairly common is unique in the first world: only in America. It’s barbaric and embarrassing. The science is pretty unambiguous—a high likelihood of being caught and punished is a better deterrent than a low-probability but larger punishment. So I don’t want to see this doctor get a 40-year sen…

The deterrent and long term way to keep patients safe is not just the 4 years in prison, it is losing his medical license in perpetuity throughout the USA. Not sure if his sentence includes this but it should be in public records. My PCP in MA was busted for a different charge and lost his ability to practice medicine FOREVER throughout the USA. Way to throw all those years of med school in the dustbin!

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#32

Post by twblalock »

mikeash wrote: post #13
onetimemanytime wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really comparable. The street dealer is not likely to get 40 years, although many may have gotten it (Assuming that a street dealer doesn't have 400 kilos of coke in his stash house. If he does, he's no street dealer) Also the doc loses his license and every single penny he has, between lawyers, years without being able to make a penny, and court fines. When you make a certain amount of money the trend is to live…

Are you implying that being bankrupted is worse than going to prison?

I'd bet that many rich people would rather spend 4 years in prison than lose all of their assets, especially if the prison is one of those minimum-security summer camps the white collar criminals normally end up in.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#33

Post by jjeaff »

j_jochem wrote: post #23
andybak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the street dealers’ customers know full well that they’re buying a very addictive substance You're forgetting the large number of non-addictive substances that carry long sentences.

I was thinking of dealers selling heroin in particular, since that feels like the appropriate thing to compare fentanyl-pushing MDs to, but in a broader sense, your point is if course correct.

Ironically, fentanyl is more dangerous than heroin and a large amount of heroin overdose have supposedly been because fentanyl was mixed in with the heroin unbeknownst to the user.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#34

Post by csallen »

koolba wrote: post #16
dcposch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just means we should treat low level criminals humanely. Four years is plenty. The thing where decade plus sentences are fairly common is unique in the first world: only in America. It’s barbaric and embarrassing. The science is pretty unambiguous—a high likelihood of being caught and punished is a better deterrent than a low-probability but larger punishment. So I don’t want to see this doctor get a 40-year sen…

It’s really not. Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague. What’s makes this particularly heinous is the trust we place as a society in medical providers. The vast majority of people will take whatever medicine a doctor prescribes. No questions asked. Abusing that position of power is sickening.

> Four years is hardly a deterrent. It’s barely a slap on the wrist considering the number of lives destroyed by that plague.

This is the exact kind of emotional thinking that makes it so easy to jack up sentencing to an unreasonable degree. It's why we spent so many millennia of human history insensitive to the torture and abuse of our fellow man so long as he could be labeled a criminal.

First, you're comparing a single doctor's sentence to the entirety of the misery caused by a crisis caused by many, many people and systems.

Second, what makes you think four years isn't a deterrent? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but we should be using evidence to decide that, not knee-jerk emotional reactions.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#35

Post by maxerickson »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #28
rhizome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years is hardly a deterrent What do you know? Do tell.

Honestly, if you could make $10M as a mid-level distributor, squirrel most of it away tax-free, with the downside risk being only four years in the pen, that would be a massive rational win for most people. Of course, the only reason you can make millions of dollars illegally at this racket is because it's illegal in the first place, so never mind. Drug laws cause far more harm to society than the drugs themselves ev…

There's a famous paper about drug gang economics:

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittVenkates...

It suggests that $10 million of profit would be quite the success.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#36

Post by csallen »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #28
rhizome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four years is hardly a deterrent What do you know? Do tell.

Honestly, if you could make $10M as a mid-level distributor, squirrel most of it away tax-free, with the downside risk being only four years in the pen, that would be a massive rational win for most people. Of course, the only reason you can make millions of dollars illegally at this racket is because it's illegal in the first place, so never mind. Drug laws cause far more harm to society than the drugs themselves ev…

For reference, the doctor in the story "pleaded guilty to taking more than $188,000 in kickbacks disguised as speaker fees." As a result, he "lost his medical license and was ousted from his post as a Brown University professor, … the judge sentenced him to 51 months and ordered restitution of $754,000," and I'm sure he's gotten a heap of public shame and humiliation.

Is it possible he has enough cash hidden away to make this all worthwhile? Yes, but I'd bet against it.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#37

Post by skellera »

jjeaff wrote: post #33
j_jochem wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of dealers selling heroin in particular, since that feels like the appropriate thing to compare fentanyl-pushing MDs to, but in a broader sense, your point is if course correct.

Ironically, fentanyl is more dangerous than heroin and a large amount of heroin overdose have supposedly been because fentanyl was mixed in with the heroin unbeknownst to the user.

It’s more dangerous because you don’t know how much you’re getting on the streets. In a prescription, it’s a regulated medicine that is exactly the amount the label says.

I’m not defending the doctor but the point being made doesn’t apply.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#38

Post by inteleng »

sitkack wrote: post #26
onetimemanytime wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is the President, not a King. This doc has been convicted and was sentenced based on the laws in place when he commuted the crimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law and all. Also Trump cannot force the US Congress and Senate to pass the laws. Or the courts to judge that this is compatible with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_and_unusual_punishment

If I were Trump, I would make a penal colony on one of our pacific atolls and then drone strike him, that would align with existing executive power. Didn't we declare a "War on Drugs", so that would make drug dealers enemy combatants and subject to tribunals and gitmo. I should have been Alito.

This attitude toward justice is exactly why you're not Alito.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#39

Post by esturk »

owly wrote: post #31
dcposch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just means we should treat low level criminals humanely. Four years is plenty. The thing where decade plus sentences are fairly common is unique in the first world: only in America. It’s barbaric and embarrassing. The science is pretty unambiguous—a high likelihood of being caught and punished is a better deterrent than a low-probability but larger punishment. So I don’t want to see this doctor get a 40-year sen…

The deterrent and long term way to keep patients safe is not just the 4 years in prison, it is losing his medical license in perpetuity throughout the USA. Not sure if his sentence includes this but it should be in public records. My PCP in MA was busted for a different charge and lost his ability to practice medicine FOREVER throughout the USA. Way to throw all those years of med school in the dustbin!

He did lose his medical license but he's also 63. After he's out, he's most likely going to retire.

Re: Doctor Gets 4 Years in Prison for Insys Opioid Kickbacks

#40

Post by 75dvtwin »

anonymous5133 wrote: post #10

FYI, there is a new episode on american greed which pretty much shows how these type of operations worked. Insys basically gave the kickbacks by having the doctors give "speeches" but it turns out no speeches were given and the doctors got the checks anyways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2WBKkyFpRo

Seems like paid speeches (and charities) are a form of bribery vehicle, not sure which English-speaking country this was first pioneered, but American politicians seem to be most active users of this method. [1]

[1] https://www.salon.com/2013/07/17/the_buckraking_practices_of...

Post reply on HN