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Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

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Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#141

Post by eof »

RK wrote: post #65
kevingadd wrote: post #30

Growing up, I rarely was in a situation to tip, but these days, living near Palo Alto, i've noticed something interesting: out of the places I go to eat or get coffee, a few are small independent businesses owned by locals. At the ones where I was getting consistently good service, I started tipping 20%+. Within a few weeks of this, I was surprised to notice that they began discounting my food and drinks without ment…

I think a very common tip increasing strategy used by people serving food is to give discounts. If I'm selling you something for $10 and you'd normally tip $1 and I give it to you for $8, you are much more inclined to tip me $2-3, because you'd still pay the same or less and received "special" service. This of course may be unethical for the employee, depending on store policy. My best friend falls for it every time,…

This is officially sanctioned at the coffee shop I frequent. I used to often get free coffee because I am good friends with a lot of the employees, and when wasn't free it was usually someone new I didn't know or $1 (from 1.65).

The owners a couple years ago put a lock down on all the free coffee going out of the place but encouraged the employees to give discounts to their friends.

It actually works out quite well, as the place can't afford to really pay any type of decent wage. The owners recognized that many people (myself included) would simply stop going to said shop everyday if coffee went from free to 1.65 or 1 to 1.65. I would still go sometimes, but it's not like they are going to see an immediate 65% increase on that revenue if people stop giving away the coffee.

At the same time, it allows the workers to get a couple extra bucks an hour and allows them to retain a number of really good employees while paying a wage <$10 an hour.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#142

Post by JoeAltmaier »

jpark wrote: post #54
scott_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find it unethical? I'm not being glib. You can see why I don't find it unethical in posts below.

Many companies would find similar behavior among their employees to be unethical and cause for termination. For instance, large retailers have strict gift rules in place so that suppliers cannot "bribe" the retail buyers to get their stuff on shelves.

Our Walmart contact in their technology center wouldn't accept a cup of coffee during a site visit, without putting a quarter on the table. They Strictly enforce a ban on gifts and favors, calling it all bribery and grounds for getting fired.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#143

Post by raghava »

Many comments speak of 'establishing a relationship' and 'getting an inside man'. Would it also not work the other way, in certain cases? Person A moves into a locality. Couple of days later visits a nearby restaurant. He is asked to wait; and he witnesses Person B flashing some greens (or blues, if on the other side of the planet ;) and getting in jumping the wait-list. Person C follows suit and does the same. Person A finds it insulting, and leaves. The establishment just lost a potential regular considering that he resides nearby.

Also, would service providers prefer a person who tips modestly (but consistently) over someone who tips generously once?

Sebastian's comment above mentions an experience in Vietnam. From what I have seen, in certain establishments/places in regions where stronger currencies (e.g. $/£) trump the local currencies (e.g. INR), it is not uncommon to find the local populace being treated with mild neglect in spite of them being(equally if not more) friendly and respectful; while a great deal of preference would be given to those who stand out in the crowd and can afford to tip more. (I know; many can sense a hint of racism being dragged in. But as unfortunately sad it is, it indeed happens at times. I hope visits to Mysore/Goa/Hampi can relate to this)

And about dressing, it reminded me of http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/hodja.html#eatcoat

tl:dr; Money speaks; nay, screams. We just have to get over this fact.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#144

Post by ZachPruckowski »

Devilboy wrote: post #90
wyclif wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To protect the illusion of fairness displayed to diners who get line-jumped.

That money doesn't go to the business, it's pocketed by that one person.

Same for table tips - the owner gets no additional money if I tip the waitress well for attentiveness and competence above and beyond the standard for that class of restaurant.

Look at it this way - the owner has X tables and Y seatings per evening. Let's say P is the number of people who want tables, R is people with reservations, and S is the number of people who show up looking for a spare table. So long as S > XY-R (which implies P > XY), the manner in which customers are selected from S doesn't really matter that much[1].

In fact, "willing and able to tip hostess" is not a bad customer differentiator - the subset of customers who are willing to pay for a seat are more likely to be willing to spend big bucks on the meal and are more likely to be in a hurry (possibly letting you turn that table an extra time if you're lucky). It's only really a problem for the owner if the hostess is ignoring more clear signals that the guy's a big spender.

[1] - Since Most Valuable Customers likely have reservations or would get preferential treatment without tipping the hostess.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#145

Post by jerf »

tkahn6 wrote: post #96
jerf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'"Fair share"? As if each person deserves to be served?' Everyone does deserve to be served. Why? Is it because it's an immutable ethical truth? No. It's because that's our culture. The US is a pretty egalitarian society. It isn't perfect but it's still in our cultural DNA. A lot of the objection is the issue of slipping the seater a $100. If it was an open auction at the door and everybody had to bid for seats, that…

Don't you think it's kind of a dangerous thing when you start saying you deserve something by virtue of the fact you perceive it to be a cultural norm? "I work hard but was laid off from my job. America is all about rewarding people for working hard so I got screwed. Therefore it's OK for me to rob a bank in order to compensate myself for my monetary losses which society owes me."

In response, I simply lean over and gently light your strawman on fire.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#146

Post by ZachPruckowski »

btmorex wrote: post #23
BrandonM wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone else waits a few extra minutes, but meanwhile the maitre d's work income is vastly improved while you get a quick seat for a fee. In the end, the net effect on society is probably neutral at worst. At best, no one else even notices and both you and the maitre d' have a great night.

The effect on society can be much, much worse than neutral. If it happens enough, all of sudden it's expected and then people will start intentionally delaying service/making it difficult unless you pay them. (for reference, see any country with petty corruption/bribery problems) What's the difference between this and say slipping the building inspector a hundred dollars to "not have any problems"?

>"The effect on society can be much, much worse than neutral. If it happens enough, all of sudden it's expected and then people will start intentionally delaying service/making it difficult unless you pay them. (for reference, see any country with petty corruption/bribery problems)"

A mitigating factor is that restaurant owners/managers will only tolerate this behavior from their employees when customer demand exceeds seating supply. If a hostess has an empty table and refuses to seat a party until they bribe her, she will be fired.

>"What's the difference between this and say slipping the building inspector a hundred dollars to "not have any problems"?"

The hostess's job depends on allocating scarce tables to customers with no good indicators of customer quality. The inspector's job is to only certify safe buildings, and he has loads of indicators to make that determination, and the certificates are not scarce.

That said, I don't see what's wrong with a system where you can pay to short-circuit some slowdowns. It would be worth $20 to me to go from a half-day's wait at the DMV to a 30-minute wait, and I'm sure there are parties willing to pay tens of thousands to put their building plans at the top of the pile (without circumventing any inspections or anything, just getting the next available inspection). The downside to this is that, while it raises revenue, it detracts from government's duty to serve all citizens equally.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#147

Post by ay »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #47

Great article but I wanted to discuss how the link is to the print page where there is no navigation, ads or ability to see other content. I suggest the ?printable=true be removed from the url out of respect for the content providers. A lot of time and money goes into creating content. This is clearly a well written and interesting article since it's on top of hacker news right now. Why screw the website out of the e…

I would not mind paying some 15-20 cents for the experience of reading a good article in a single plain page, ad-free - if this was given as an option to tip the writer (as opposed to paywall).

If a mechanism existed to part with those 20 cents without a bigger pain than that of a click.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#149

Post by Yzupnick »

nl wrote: post #100
Yzupnick wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is I'm not sure how the financial markets work in Vietnam, but in most Western Countries your dollar probably goes further when it comes to helping people out sitting in the bank than over-tipping and being kind to people. Granted it is probably good for you psychologically to form these relationships of mutual kindness, and to see yourself putting a smile on someones face on a daily basis. But in terms of…

I assume you are talking about the credit creation cycle (if not, then please explain your logic?) I think this depends on your definition of "goes further" While credit creation may create more value (measured in dollars) than tipping/gifts/charity, the opposite may be true if you measure in terms of numbers of people helped. Many people who are helped by tipping are service workers who don't have easy access to cre…

Yes that is what I'm talking about. While they are not helped directly by getting loans, they are helped by overall growth in the economy.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#150

Post by euroclydon »

nl wrote: post #102
euroclydon wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw it. I guess there is a disconnect between the rate charged and the room assigned in hotel management systems. I could fix that pretty quickly with a few queries.

Your comment is a little unclear, but it appears you think room rates are fixed. They're not at all - they vary pretty much the same way airline tickets do. Hotels are a bit less obvious about it because the often have display rates. (Varying rates is especially common in places like Vegas where there is usually a huge oversupply of rooms, but hotels make money from other things, ie, gambling)

I know they're not fixed, but it seems there is zero information conveyed from the purchasing system to the hotel management system, which conveys what was originally sold.
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