Bribing maitre d' to skip the line • Hacker News Board

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#101

Post by uxp » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 2:07 AM UTC

mturmon wrote: post #85

bryanh wrote: post #50

I thought the line "Bribing, it turns out, has as much effect on the briber as it does on the bribee" was particularly telling. I mean, bribing someone (successfully) touches on everything: a sense of exclusivity, an appearance of prominence, a seemingly meaningful interpersonal connection, and it streamlines the whole process. No wonder if feels so good...

It is an insightful line. Partners in crime is the concept, though, I think. In this a very trivial "crime".

The only "crime" that is broken is split between ethical and social.

Socially, if there is a line to get into a place or to receive something and you skip ahead of a hundred other people, then you're a jerk. Another point I can see is if by this article being published, more people start trying to bribe their way into restaurants, the people that already try to follow the standard rules get pushed further back in line. Bribing your way into some place shouldn't be the protocol for getting a seat. Only when "This is a really important night for me" is true should it be used. And if it successful, tip on the way out if the service was great. If you start acting like an ass, you're going to ruin it for the rest of us.

Ethically, its fairly weak. There might be rules and a code of conduct that the wait staff need to adhere to, and when offered cash to break them it may get them in trouble. Though, that is their problem for accepting it, but you should also respect those rules and not try to break them either.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#102

Post by nl » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 2:15 AM UTC

euroclydon wrote: post #78

jon_dahl wrote: post #70

There is something similar with hotels, esp. in a place like Vegas: show $20/$50/$100 at check-in, and get an upgraded room. Google "twenty dollar trick". Not that I've had the nerve to try it.

Saw it. I guess there is a disconnect between the rate charged and the room assigned in hotel management systems. I could fix that pretty quickly with a few queries.

Your comment is a little unclear, but it appears you think room rates are fixed.

They're not at all - they vary pretty much the same way airline tickets do. Hotels are a bit less obvious about it because the often have display rates.

(Varying rates is especially common in places like Vegas where there is usually a huge oversupply of rooms, but hotels make money from other things, ie, gambling)

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#103

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 2:20 AM UTC

danielsoneg wrote: post #88

MichaelApproved wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Paging through is a pain and annoying to the reader.

But it doesn't dispute your original point - ads are annoying to the reader too, and longer content costs more.

[deleted]

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#104

Post by MichaelApproved » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 2:22 AM UTC

chunkbot wrote: post #60

MichaelApproved wrote: post #47

Great article but I wanted to discuss how the link is to the print page where there is no navigation, ads or ability to see other content. I suggest the ?printable=true be removed from the url out of respect for the content providers. A lot of time and money goes into creating content. This is clearly a well written and interesting article since it's on top of hacker news right now. Why screw the website out of the e…

If there's a "single page" option, I prefer that to "printable". I don't mind ads, but I hate to click through three pages just to read an article.

It's surprising the divide that exists within the HN community. You have a lot of entrepreneurs who try to make successful companies based on free content and another side that can't stand those people. Or at least it seems that way based on the way this article is submitted, downvoted comments and general comments posted on the site.

Someone creates good content and we're almost punishing them for it. Yes, paging is annoying but is it such an offense that we remove the ability for the site owner to monetize the content?

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#105

Post by philwelch » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 2:56 AM UTC

dandelany wrote: post #58

BobbyH wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think about it, it is economically rational behavior for a barista/bartender to do this for regular customers. After all, she gives you a drink that is free to her and gets back real money as a tip. The only loser is the coffee shop or bar, who has trouble tracking the number of drinks served. My friend runs a bar and this is a huge problem for him that he calls a "bribe back". The only solution he found is hi…

Yes, it's economically rational for the barista/bartender, but it's not necessarily bad business for the bar/coffeeshop either. If the bartender is smart about when and how often she hands out these freebies, she can convert one-time or occasional customers into loyal, regular customers, which is much better for the bar in the long run. It reminds me of the Apple store - 9 times out of 10, if you go in there with som…

Fun story--I had a dropped/dented PowerBook once that I never got fixed because it was my fault, but it had another issue due to a manufacturing fault that I did send it in for. They sent it back with apparently a brand new, undented case.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#106

Post by noodle » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 3:02 AM UTC

megablast wrote: post #95

noodle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its surprising how quickly people go out of their way to be friendly and helpful to you when you're a model customer. and i mean model as someone who is easy, friendly, regular, and consistently tips. most service industry people can't outright reject customers without a really good reason, so if you can make someone's day easier, they'll typically reciprocate it.

Yes, a model customer is also someone who never complains no matter how bad the service is, and how bad the staff screw up. That is not the best way to go about things. I have also seen the best service going to those who make the most amount of noise, who shout the loudest, and cause the most amount of trouble, since no one wants to upset that person. And I have seen model customers ignored over this person, since t…

> a model customer is also someone who never complains no matter how bad the service is

hardly. but a model customer probably isn't an ass about complaining, either. i've complained about tons of shit, and they are much more receptive and responsive when they know its someone who is usually nice.

> It is not as simple and gracious a system as you suggest.

never said it was. i don't disagree with what you're saying, and it comes down to the fact that the person taking your order is going to get fired if they tell you to leave because you're a bad customer (in most places). so they generally have to sit there and take it, for the most part. which is why a good customer is usually treated like gold.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#107

Post by philwelch » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 3:05 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #102

euroclydon wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw it. I guess there is a disconnect between the rate charged and the room assigned in hotel management systems. I could fix that pretty quickly with a few queries.

Your comment is a little unclear, but it appears you think room rates are fixed. They're not at all - they vary pretty much the same way airline tickets do. Hotels are a bit less obvious about it because the often have display rates. (Varying rates is especially common in places like Vegas where there is usually a huge oversupply of rooms, but hotels make money from other things, ie, gambling)

In Vegas in particular, hotel-casinos will comp you a room if you gamble enough--and interestingly, the EV on that gambling sometimes compares favorably to the cost of the room.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#108

Post by scott_s » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 3:11 AM UTC

jpark wrote: post #54

scott_s wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find it unethical? I'm not being glib. You can see why I don't find it unethical in posts below.

Many companies would find similar behavior among their employees to be unethical and cause for termination. For instance, large retailers have strict gift rules in place so that suppliers cannot "bribe" the retail buyers to get their stuff on shelves.

But those are instances where there is no precedent for tipping.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#109

Post by hugh3 » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 3:17 AM UTC

megablast wrote: post #94

whatusername wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I just warn you that our dog always ate the scraps (and too much of them) and ended up with Diabetes. (Such a first world problem I know). Having to give her 2 insulin injections a day was not very fun (or cheap).

Maybe that says more about the food you are eating, and a warning to change your diet.

Not really, dogs have very different dietary needs to humans.

Re: Bribing maitre d' to skip the line

#110

Post by philwelch » Thu, Sep 02, 2010, 3:18 AM UTC

jerf wrote: post #42

sp332 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fair share"? As if each person deserves to be served? Talk about a sense of entitlement. The restaurant will serve whomever it likes. You wouldn't think it unethical for the restaurant to give regulars a friendlier smile, or a specific table they like? If you have a personal relationship with someone, no matter how tenuous, they will give you better service. It's not "cheating." Especially for busy restaurants, ther…

'"Fair share"? As if each person deserves to be served?' Everyone does deserve to be served. Why? Is it because it's an immutable ethical truth? No. It's because that's our culture. The US is a pretty egalitarian society. It isn't perfect but it's still in our cultural DNA. A lot of the objection is the issue of slipping the seater a $100. If it was an open auction at the door and everybody had to bid for seats, that…

Just because something is done surreptitiously doesn't mean it's against cultural norms--it may just mean the cultural norm is to be surreptitious about it. Cultural norms are weird that way.

For instance, maybe the taboo isn't against bribery per se, but against conspicuous displays of wealth--"flashing your cash". For instance, it's taboo to openly discuss one's salary or other financial details. You might think conspicuous consumption is a counterexample, but really it works for this point too--since there's no surefire markers of social class and it's taboo to just go around saying "ha ha, I earn 100 times more money than you", people who want to brag about how rich they are buy really expensive things and make sure everyone notices them. (Similarly, since there's a taboo about exposing certain parts of your body, women who want to brag about how fantastic certain parts of their body are wear tight clothing and cleavagey tops.)

If this trick works universally among high-class restaurants in a certain culture (be it the US, New York City, or whatever), it's indeed a cultural norm to do it--even if the norm requires surreptitiousness.