Yes, Mozart!
Can any composer equal Bach?
81–90 of 171 posts
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#82The Chaconne [1] is the most moving piece of music I've ever heard. (hard stop) The story behind it makes it even more so. When you grok it at full volume you'll understand what Douglas Adams was talking about. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaconne
Helene Grimaud's interpretation [1] of Busoni's transcription for piano is also pretty amazing.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lute suites are crazy. He didn't play the lute, modern guitars didn't exist when he wrote them, the pieces aren't playable on a guitar without some changes, they sound amazing, and they are brutal to even approximate. He wrote many-voiced ("polyphonic") music for an instrument played by beating two hands on six strings. Not content with that, he wrote fugues for the same instrument, which are polyphonic music tha…
Incidentally one of his lute suites is the same as the c minor cello suite. Except I think on lute it's in either a or e minor, I forget now. I don't know whether the cello suite came first or the lute suite though. But as a violist I found this interesting. I like to play his violin sonatas and partitas but on viola but people have discouraged me from this because it means changing the key and everyone insists that…
>everyone insists that Bach is very deliberate in his choice of key
They’re being precious. He was a consummate pro who frequentlyrecycled his own themes and those of others, and his pieces often changed keys a dizzying number of times within just a few measures. Besides, that shit sounds beyond awesome on viola.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#84I first should admit that I'm a 100% self taught appreciator of classical music. I don't have any formal musical education. Nor any formal history of music education. I'm the only person of my family and friends that seeks out and listens to classical music. So, my knowledge is very uneven and I'm a total pedestrian in this realm. Over the years, I've found music by references from fiction, films and criticism. I've…
You can't stand this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwas_7H5KUs
I don't think you need to appreciate structure to find this at least somewhat interesting or telling of something, even if nothing specific.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#85A careful analysis of Beethoven's later works shows him to be a worthy contender. In particular, the Große Fugue [0] and the Op. 106 Hammerklavier sonata [1] (ironically so nicknamed, because at Op. 101, Beethoven directed that all sonatas from that time on be named Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier, and the nickname only stuck to this) show a profoundly advanced sense of counterpoint and structure. In addition to a…
Agree on Hammerklavier. I have a pet theory that Große Fugue is an elaborate troll on Beethoven's part. I kind of think that it was constructed in such a way to be as analytically rich as possible while being horrible to listen to. I have to wonder if it wasn't deliberately constructed by Beethoven to con future generations into listening to awful music.
Where Brahms is concerned, very few composers matched his mastery of the craft. That being said, Bach is one of them.
I think Bach is so consistently regarded as the GOAT because (AFAIK) no one has matched his output while maintaining the high level of quality he did.
Also, he wrote St. Matthew's Passion which is arguably the greatest piece of music in the entire western canon. I can think of very few other reasonable contenders for that spot.
As far as composers being greater than Bach in any particular area, I 100% agree. Brahms was probably the best chamber composer, Chopin wrote the best music for piano etc...
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#86I first should admit that I'm a 100% self taught appreciator of classical music. I don't have any formal musical education. Nor any formal history of music education. I'm the only person of my family and friends that seeks out and listens to classical music. So, my knowledge is very uneven and I'm a total pedestrian in this realm. Over the years, I've found music by references from fiction, films and criticism. I've…
Those pieces you mention aren't exactly the things I would categorize as "moving", though. What about the pieces for solo cello (BWV 1007-1008)? The Goldberg Variations? The solo violin sonatas (BWV 1001-1006)? His motets (e.g. BWV 227) and cantatas (too many to mention)? Or the Matthäus Passion (BWV 244)? Most people would also mention the Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major (BWV 1068, more famously known as "Air on t…
One scene in Ingmar Bergman's Persona made me realize just how moving Bach could be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx9iW3bOBhs
Or try the start of the St. Matthew Passion, imagining Christ carrying the cross up Golgotha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6As1Pvz-mHs
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#87I first should admit that I'm a 100% self taught appreciator of classical music. I don't have any formal musical education. Nor any formal history of music education. I'm the only person of my family and friends that seeks out and listens to classical music. So, my knowledge is very uneven and I'm a total pedestrian in this realm. Over the years, I've found music by references from fiction, films and criticism. I've…
I think you're probably listening to the wrong Bach. I don't think that newbies should generally approach Bach's keyboard repertoire first. I'd recommend starting with the cantatas and maybe parts of St Matthew's Passion. Also, even amongst people who make classical music a living, Bach can be an acquired taste, so I wouldn't feel bad if it doesn't click. I studied piano performance in school many moons ago and only recently have come to appreciate Bach's keyboard literature, and even then only in part (I quite enjoy the Goldbergs, keyboard concerti, and dance suites. I'm not sure I could be paid to listen to WTC in its entirety--though I obviously heard and played quite a bit of it on account of studying piano performance.)
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#88A careful analysis of Beethoven's later works shows him to be a worthy contender. In particular, the Große Fugue [0] and the Op. 106 Hammerklavier sonata [1] (ironically so nicknamed, because at Op. 101, Beethoven directed that all sonatas from that time on be named Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier, and the nickname only stuck to this) show a profoundly advanced sense of counterpoint and structure. In addition to a…
Beethoven string quartets are some of my favorite music ever written. Pretty much starting with Op.59.
The unbridled aggression in Op. 95 cuts right across the centuries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxYhUO9Gq4
It almost feels like it could be written tomorrow.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#89There are a number of great but not as well known earlier composers. William Lawes comes to mind.
Re: Can any composer equal Bach?
#90Bach is the 'ultimate composer' in the same sense that Pleistocene Ogg is the ultimate tool-maker, Robert Goddard the ultimate rocket-maker. Bach did many wondrous things, added a lot to the vocabulary, staked a viable claim on a couple of mother lodes. But this sort of argument (though eternally engaged in) is futile. While classical is a favorite of many (including me), music has moved far, far onward.
Onward, but not forward. Counterpoint is still depressingly underused in modern music (save for the occasional duet), and it can say so much with so little material. (Heck, the majority modern music barely even changes chords, let let alone key or anything beyond.) These tools are not antiquated; they are not buried in the sediment. They are still perfectly useful and there for our taking, if only we would dust them off.