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Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

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Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#51

Post by tyingq »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #35

So, this is pretty much everything the HN crowd was asking for, right? Pull AMP apart into a bunch of web standards and switch Google search to promote any content which follows those standards rather than AMP content specifically? Why are all the top comments so negative?

“Why are all the top comments so negative?”

Google could still be planning to keep the top banner, the left/right swipe to your competitor functionally for carousels, etc. That top banner, for example, has an [x] button that end users expect to dismiss the banner and stay on the page. Instead, it goes back to Google.

The negativity is because they aren’t being explicit as to what is actually being delivered. They are still retaining the right to run their own arbitrary JS on YOUR site, which could do almost anything they want.

TLDR: too soon to tell how genuine the message is, and Google isn’t working very hard to clear it up.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#52

Post by smacktoward »

jashkenas wrote: post #16

Just for kicks, folks, let's collect all of the adjectives, adverbs and qualifiers used in this post to describe ~AMP: * a leading format * consistently excellent * invest strongly in ... * well-lit * user-first * instant-loading * tightly-integrated * highly-optimized * great * well-lit * great * well documented * easily deployable * validatable * opinionated about user-first principles * fast development * constant…

We need an AMP version of Buzzword Bingo: http://www.businessbuzzwordbingo.com/

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#53

Post by lern_too_spel »

x0x0 wrote: post #46
dfabulich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not telling you to trust them. I'm certainly not telling you to use AMP. I'm just saying, they've done a lot of work on this Web Packaging thing, and it's a pretty good replacement for AMP. You should check it out. It's hard to see why they'd do all of that work of replacing AMP if your theory is right and they just loooved stealing those URLs.

Because 1 - they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar 2 - the internet isn't quite as dumb as google hoped 3 - thank god for the EU & Margrethe Vestager. Maybe we can talk her into adding a zero. ps -- that status, as near as I can tell, of the amp url fix is vaporware. Deployed yet? Nope. So let's wait to get all triumphant until their supposed solution is deployed. https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/01/09/…

It's not up to Google to deploy. It's up to the browser vendors to implement, and that won't happen with Apple dragging its feet on every web standard.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#54

Post by smacktoward »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #35

So, this is pretty much everything the HN crowd was asking for, right? Pull AMP apart into a bunch of web standards and switch Google search to promote any content which follows those standards rather than AMP content specifically? Why are all the top comments so negative?

Probably because the actual message is buried under a mountain of self-serving, AMP-praising buzzwords ("user-first," "well-lit," etc.). The post spends so much time patting AMP on the back that it's easy to miss the point that it's actually announcing Google's retreat from AMP.

If they'd taken the same message and presented it as "we hear you: forcing you to reformat your web site using our own format sucks, and tying your search visibility to your adoption of that format sucks even harder, so we've decided to stop doing both those things," fewer people would have missed the point.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#55

Post by lern_too_spel »

tootie wrote: post #23

Is anyone out there doing anything with AMP besides Google? It seems like it could be super useful for aggregator sites like Reddit. Or HN for that matter. Like a heavyweight version of OpenGraph meta tags.

CloudFlare, Bing, Baidu, and Yahoo Japan run their own AMP caches. I agree that it makes sense for external link heavy sites like search engines and Reddit.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#56

Post by Ajedi32 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #49
Ajedi32 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, AMP has succeeded at getting publishers to deliver fast and performant pages where other efforts did not. I dispute the idea that technological factors are not at play here. AMP's preloading and automatic CDN caching system have a pretty big impact on load times, and its technically-enforced restrictions on what sort of performance-impacting content publishers are allowed to include in their pages seems to d…

The fact that Google Search is a monopoly is not a technological factor. Google gives preference to AMP sites on Google Search, therefore publishers must implement AMP. I actually have a lot less issue with AMP as a technological solution, as I do with the Google's "our way or the highway" treatment of the Internet. Google uses both it's search monopoly and it's browser monopoly (and often, both at the same time) to…

Fair point, but that problem (at least as far as AMP is concerned) is exactly the one this blog post is addressing: Google is planning to stop pushing AMP specifically in its search results and instead push a set of open web standards which achieve the same technical goals.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#57

Post by xab9 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #45
xab9 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because AMP should not have existed in the first place :) We already have everything we need to make fast and performant pages - we can't do it, because of marketing and trackers and spying and shit though: not technological factors, but human factors.

And yet, AMP has succeeded at getting publishers to deliver fast and performant pages where other efforts did not. I dispute the idea that technological factors are not at play here. AMP's preloading and automatic CDN caching system have a pretty big impact on load times, and its technically-enforced restrictions on what sort of performance-impacting content publishers are allowed to include in their pages seems to d…

Publishers are in a deep shit, print numbers are dwindling, their pure existence depends on facebook and google whom are trying to suck them dry.

It's not a simbiosis, it's parasitic relationship even though the hosts may try to pretend it is not.

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#58

Post by jashkenas »

smacktoward wrote: post #52
jashkenas wrote: post #16

Just for kicks, folks, let's collect all of the adjectives, adverbs and qualifiers used in this post to describe ~AMP: * a leading format * consistently excellent * invest strongly in ... * well-lit * user-first * instant-loading * tightly-integrated * highly-optimized * great * well-lit * great * well documented * easily deployable * validatable * opinionated about user-first principles * fast development * constant…

We need an AMP version of Buzzword Bingo: http://www.businessbuzzwordbingo.com/

Happy to provide, buddy:

http://myfreebingocards.com/bingo-card-generator/results/w5z...

Bingo!

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#59

Post by mattferderer »

mattigames wrote: post #50
jashkenas wrote: post #16

Just for kicks, folks, let's collect all of the adjectives, adverbs and qualifiers used in this post to describe ~AMP: * a leading format * consistently excellent * invest strongly in ... * well-lit * user-first * instant-loading * tightly-integrated * highly-optimized * great * well-lit * great * well documented * easily deployable * validatable * opinionated about user-first principles * fast development * constant…

Text editors should have a feature to warn about a high number of qualifies/adverbs: "you are using to many qualifiers and adverbs, you may look biased to your readers, it may be a good idea to remove or rethink some of them."

I suggest everyone use one of many popular & excellent tools to check your professional articles for excessive & unnecessary words & long or hard to read sentences, for example here are some amazingly free tools I really enjoy:

Web App: http://beta.hemingwayapp.com/

VS Code Extension: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=travisth... (This uses open source libraries you can utilize to create your own version if you don't use VS Code)

Re: Standardizing lessons learned from AMP

#60

Post by notatoad »

dfabulich wrote: post #24

I wrote a blog post about these proposals a couple of weeks ago and a nice HN thread formed around it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16424445 But as I said in my post, the problem with posts like today's AMP blog post is that they're too full of jargon to be comprehensible to a general audience. The Web Packaging standard is really cool, but today's blog post just linked out to a ton of web standards without d…

what do you think is too technical in the linked blog post? i have never worked with AMP code or implemented AMP, and i was able to understand it just fine. And i don't think i'm any cleverer than the average web developer on here.

They're expanding the carousel of AMP links on the SERP to include content packaged using the new web packaging standard . Seems straightforward enough to me.

>The new Web Packaging thing shouldn't be called "AMP".

it isn't...

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