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Coinbase Index Fund

blog.coinbase.com

101–110 of 346 posts

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#101
This is a great move by Coinbase to make "owning more crypto" easier for the average (accredited) investor. But 4 coins != the market.

Like others, we've tried to maintain our own index of top cryptocurrencies, and experienced all the same repetitive issues of calculating asset shares, etc.

So we created a tool to help ourselves, and hopefully others: https://thecoindexer.com. It takes an input portfolio (on CoinFYI or others) and periodically calculates and emails the optimal* rebalancing trades to match a target index. Current indexes are based off CoinMarketCap's top 5, 10 and 25 assets.

We've still got a lot of kinks to work out, but feedback/suggestions are welcome.

*optimal = fewest # of trades on preferred exchanges

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#102

I have attempted to duplicate this index fund manually by purchasing the top 25 cryptocurrencies (market-cap weighted) over the past year or so. I'll say that it was hardly worth the enormous work involved, and these index funds cannot come soon enough to non-accredited investors. In some cases it's not possible to do perfectly alone: NEO has a minimum unit of 1 coin, and so if you wanted it to not be overweighted, y…

What made it not worth it? No real overall gain in value? Not worth your time?

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#103
For anyone wondering why this is better than just buying the coins yourself, here are some reasons:

1. Non-technical investors don't know which coins to buy. There are some genuinely good coins, and lots of scams, and they look pretty much identical to the untrained eye.

2. Non-technical investors don't know how to store coins safely. Words like "cold wallet" and "Trezor" don't mean anything to them. Even if they wanted to learn, it's hard to separate useful information apart from scams. There was a guy a while ago who bought a hardware wallet on ebay and lost all his coins. Even smart people sometimes do dumb things, and in this case it could cost them everything.

3. Investment firms with more than 1 person involved have additional challenges. Who gets the coinbase login? Who gets access to the safe deposit box where the private keys are held? If only one partner has access, he might steal the coins and say "we got hacked" and no one can prove otherwise. Or he might get hit by a bus, and then no one else can get the coins out. If multiple partners have access, one of them might screw the others and steal the money and there's no way to know who did it. Crypto nerds will say "use multi-sig wallets," but that's way too complicated for most people. Screw-ups when creating a multi-sig wallet could render your coins unspendable.

4. If you make a crypto portfolio (as opposed to just holding bitcoin), you'll trigger a capital gains event each time you rebalance. Many people don't seem to realize that crypto-to-crypto trades are still taxable, but it's true. If you want to rebalance more than once per year, it becomes short-term capital gains and your tax rate goes way up.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#104

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This whole regulation is unneeded. You can bring your money to a casino and put it all on zero. Or buy a thousand lottery tickets. But investing in risky businesses needs to be walled off to the wealthy. What we really need is the real consequences for fraud / false financial claims.

At the casino your risks are known, and well-defined. In blackjack with basic strategy your expected value is, what, 49%? Craps, it's similar. Just look it up. Nobody at the table playing, or even running the show, can manipulate the outcome except by changing the parameters of the game as posted in the (I assume) regulated odds boards.

Investing in an unregulated market is absolutely nothing like that. Your outcome is undefined, but you're subject to front-running, tape painting, wash trading, fake news stories and tens of other well-known scams.

The regulations aren't to stop the poor from making money. If it were a sure-fire way to make money, everyone would just do it all the time. It's the Trumpian "trade wars are easy to win" argument. If it's easy, everyone would win, so nobody would win, end of story. It's to limit people to what they can afford to lose (or at least try). And it's done in the social good also, as people who become insolvent then utilize the social safety net to get back on their feet.

Yes, we need the real consequences, and what you're describing is literally regulation.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#105

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This whole regulation is unneeded. You can bring your money to a casino and put it all on zero. Or buy a thousand lottery tickets. But investing in risky businesses needs to be walled off to the wealthy. What we really need is the real consequences for fraud / false financial claims.

Casinos (and lotteries) are subject to heavy regulation, including oversight on the odds of the games they offer.

The problem with back-end enforcement (and those laws do exist) is that it doesn't remove the incentive to try issuing a scam-ish security and hope you will evade prosecution, and the damage done can take years to unwind, if it's even possible at all. This is why there are regulations on public offerings of securities to non-accredited investors.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#107

Since nobody has posted it yet, the composition is: * Bitcoin 62% * Ethereum 27% * Bitcoin Cash 7% * Litecoin 4% So don't expect any of the more obscure cryptocurrencies.

+ Because they aren't listed on Coinbase yet, that is obviously subject to change as time goes on

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#108
post #81

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This "index fund" is made out of four currencies, BTC, ETH, LTC, BTC cash. Just buy a bunch of those and you're "investing" in their "index". Also you don't have to pay their fee for their immense expertise in putting this together.

I already pay a premium[0] on GBTC over the underlying crypto so I can have easy exposure in my IRAs, and would gladly do so for ETH, LTC, BCH etc.

0. Average 52-week premium 56.18% https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBTC:US

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#109
post #82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was there enormous work involved? Were you rebalancing very often? Note that Coinbase's fund will be made up of only four cryptocurrencies, not 25 like yours.

Yeah, this is an index of 4 securities and is rebalanced annually. Coinbase is charging a 2% fee for what amounts to automating a max of 4 transactions a year. I get that people are excited about cryptocurrencies becoming available in more traditional investment vehicles, but this particular index fund seems almost completely unnecessary.

I'm admittedly not up on rebalancing policies. With a fund of highly volatile assets, would rebalancing more frequently be necessary? I'm not thinking daily, but perhaps every month or so?

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#110
post #103

For anyone wondering why this is better than just buying the coins yourself, here are some reasons: 1. Non-technical investors don't know which coins to buy. There are some genuinely good coins, and lots of scams, and they look pretty much identical to the untrained eye. 2. Non-technical investors don't know how to store coins safely. Words like "cold wallet" and "Trezor" don't mean anything to them. Even if they wan…

> There was a guy a while ago who bought a hardware wallet on ebay and lost all his coins.

Was this because he sent his coins to a paper wallet that the seller generated for him? I would be impressed if someone had actually managed to produce a fake trezor, but even then, it's pretty straightforward not to buy them on ebay.

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