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Coinbase Index Fund

blog.coinbase.com

81–90 of 346 posts

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#81

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This "index fund" is made out of four currencies, BTC, ETH, LTC, BTC cash. Just buy a bunch of those and you're "investing" in their "index". Also you don't have to pay their fee for their immense expertise in putting this together.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#82
post #73

I have attempted to duplicate this index fund manually by purchasing the top 25 cryptocurrencies (market-cap weighted) over the past year or so. I'll say that it was hardly worth the enormous work involved, and these index funds cannot come soon enough to non-accredited investors. In some cases it's not possible to do perfectly alone: NEO has a minimum unit of 1 coin, and so if you wanted it to not be overweighted, y…

Why was there enormous work involved? Were you rebalancing very often? Note that Coinbase's fund will be made up of only four cryptocurrencies, not 25 like yours.

Yeah, this is an index of 4 securities and is rebalanced annually. Coinbase is charging a 2% fee for what amounts to automating a max of 4 transactions a year. I get that people are excited about cryptocurrencies becoming available in more traditional investment vehicles, but this particular index fund seems almost completely unnecessary.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#83
The potential for this fund to motivation market manipulation is large: Given that the fund rebalances annually, all market manipulators need to do is 'paint the close' on the year, Coinbase is dictated by their terms to go in and buy up a bunch of the coins rebalance on that 'market cap' that had their close painted, and then the painted coins are dumped.

I.e. eating up ask liquidity close to year end forces Coinbase to buy up that removed liquidity at a premium.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#84

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This whole regulation is unneeded. You can bring your money to a casino and put it all on zero. Or buy a thousand lottery tickets. But investing in risky businesses needs to be walled off to the wealthy. What we really need is the real consequences for fraud / false financial claims.

The Libertarian in me agrees but then I think of the psychology of how people approach casino gambling vs business investing. For the former, I feel like people know going in that the odds are in favor of the house and they come to terms with that by saying to themselves that its entertainment. In other words, they kind-of expect to get screwed.

In business investing its the opposite. They really do think they stand a chance at making millions even when the odds may actually be worse than gambling in some cases, especially if they fail to do their due diligence.

So maybe instead of regulation we simply need a legal, notarized document signed for every investment that states "I am aware that I stand a very high chance of losing all of my money and relinquish my rights to sue anyone involved unless outright fraud has been established." Probably still wouldn't work, but its worth consideration.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why is it dishonest to not use a linear scale? When you're investing, you're generally looking for relative-yield-over-timescale, which is appropriately charted as logarithmic.

Using a linear scale implies that the growth rate is independent of scale. Using a log scale implies that the growth rate is dependent on scale. Depending on your opinion of the market, choose whichever you wish

In the modern era of central bank capitalism, the dominant purpose of investment is to fight inflation, which is an annualized quantity, so using a linear scale is nonsensical for the most common practical purposes.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#87
post #81

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This "index fund" is made out of four currencies, BTC, ETH, LTC, BTC cash. Just buy a bunch of those and you're "investing" in their "index". Also you don't have to pay their fee for their immense expertise in putting this together.

Is this seriously all it is? Laughable.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#88
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 2% figure seems high. I know transaction costs in cryptocurrencies tend to be high by financial standards. Maybe that accounts for it. Also maybe by being one of the first to offer such a thing, they can charge higher management fees.

> transaction costs in cryptocurrencies tend to be high by financial standards Well if you own the exchange the effective transaction costs are 0.

There are transaction costs for exchanges but there are also transaction costs for miners. Coinbase I think just lumps these into a single number, but other places you can choose the amount that goes to miners, on the risk of taking longer to confirm your transaction if you pledge a low amount.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#89
post #81

"Available to US accredited investors." It seems a little ironic that any Joe Blow with a credit card can buy cryptocurrency, at presumably higher risk since he's managing the assets himself, but he can't invest in this fund.

This "index fund" is made out of four currencies, BTC, ETH, LTC, BTC cash. Just buy a bunch of those and you're "investing" in their "index". Also you don't have to pay their fee for their immense expertise in putting this together.

I would guess rebalancing regularly to track their index would result in more fees than the index fund fee.

Edit: Apparently they only rebalance once a year? In which case, nvm.

Re: Coinbase Index Fund

#90
"Index fund" has a meaning if the economy itself the fund is built on top of is stable.

For example, stock market index fund makes sense because stocks are built on top of capitalism, which has proven to work for a long time. Nobody would buy a index fund from a communist country, because time has proven communism is not profitable.

I think people are missing the point if they're investing in crypto index funds, because the whole point of cryptocurrencies right now is that the economy it's built on is extremely unpredictable. The whole point of "index fund" is to minimize risk, but they're not exactly minimizing risk since the whole industry could just go to zero if something radical happens (for example BTC crashes), while not really getting a good deal in terms of upsides which you can get by actively trading.

For most people who lack knowledge I think a better strategy is to invest in aggressive crypto hedge funds which are springing up like crazy nowadays--that is, if you value the potential gains more than potential loss.

And for the rest of those who are risk-averse, I would just keep it in the bank if I were them.

Risk-averse people investing in cryptocurrency is like going to las vegas and thinking they'll make tons of money.

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