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Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

economist.com

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Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#131

Post by cptskippy »

bgee wrote: post #33
anthonyleecook wrote: post #4

Some other disturbing signs from China: increasing military budget https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/06/china-splash-us175-bil... , kidnapping relatives of the reporters in other countries that exposed the uigher concentration camps http://m.dw.com/en/chinese-authorities-detain-relatives-of-r... , China literally banned words and letter n in social media https://mashable.com/2018/02/28/china-bans-n-xi-jinping-term..…

Can you elaborate more on why China's increasing military budget is a disturbing sign to you? China spends a mere 1.9% of its GDP in 2016 and that number is smaller than from Vietnam, Korea, India even Singapore [0]. To me China is only trying catching up its neighbors. BTW Japan's PM has just submitted his 2018 Military Budget and if approved would be the 6th "straight annual increase" [1]. [0]: https://data.worldba…

> China spends a mere 1.9% of its GDP in 2016

> BTW Japan's PM has just submitted his 2018 Military Budget and if approved would be the 6th "straight annual increase"

China's 2016 GDP was 11.2 Trillion USD and their Military budget was 1.9% or 212 Billion USD.

Japan's 2016 GDP was 4.9 Trillion USD and their Military budget was 0.9% or 44 Billion USD.

Japan spends 20% of what China does.

Part of Japan's military spending goes directly towards maintaining US Military Bases in Japan. Starting in 2019 they won't pay to maintain US bases AND their budget will be limited to 0.8% of GDP. (See your own article for reference)

Let's also not forget that Japanese constitution currently forbids them from using their military to settle international disputes.[0] In other words Japan can't attack or declare war on anyone and their military can only be used for defensive purposes.

> Can you elaborate more on why China's increasing military budget is a disturbing sign to you?

China is propping up North Korea[1] who launches ICBMs over Japan for fun.[2]

China and Russia are holding naval military exercises in Japan's backyard.[3]

China has been building up it's Navy.

China has become increasingly aggressive in territorial disputes with others.

China and Japan have a territorial dispute.[6]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Cons...

[1] https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/12/when-will-chi...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_missile_t...

[3] https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/12/asia/china-russia-south-china...

[4] https://globalsecurityreview.com/china-rapidly-bolstering-na...

[5] https://www.nytimes.com/topic/destination/chinas-territorial...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senkaku_Islands_dispute

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#132

Post by cptskippy »

drraid0 wrote: post #115
bgee wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are on the subject of what crimes against humanity should prevent a country getting what kind of weapon, Asia-raping Japan is on the brink of acquiring nukes according to some comments below, do you find that disturbing? Sorry for the whataboutism but I think how each country is perceived when spending money on military is worth discussing.

Yes. But Japan has been mostly, um, "inert" and peaceful since WW2. China's history since WW2, to this day, has been one of one atrocity after another. Things seem to be getting worse with Winnie the Pooh declaring him eternal president. Also, if Japan was Asia raping in WW2, China is China-raping now.

Japan is still bound by article 9 of it's constitution but let us not pretend that they haven't been trying to get rid of that article or sent their defense force to play war in the middle east "strictly for defensive purposes".

That being said; between the two, China today is more like Japan during WWII than Japan today is.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#133

Post by dang »

anthonyleecook wrote: post #4

Some other disturbing signs from China: increasing military budget https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/06/china-splash-us175-bil... , kidnapping relatives of the reporters in other countries that exposed the uigher concentration camps http://m.dw.com/en/chinese-authorities-detain-relatives-of-r... , China literally banned words and letter n in social media https://mashable.com/2018/02/28/china-bans-n-xi-jinping-term..…

Would you please stop using HN for political and national battle? You've been doing it a lot, and it's not what this site is for. As such discussions get more predictable (such as when people dump boilerplate political links into comment threads), they get both less interesting and more flame-prone, a double whammy of destruction for what we care about here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#134

Post by AnimalMuppet »

kolbe wrote: post #75
debt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually not except within in the context of Xi Xinping appointing himself ruler for life. The combination is cause for concern.

Is there something in particular about him that you find scary? I'm not sure why length of rule should play such a large part in this calculus.

Personally, the big thing I find scary about him is that he abolished term limits for himself. Oh, yeah, and he enshrined his thinking in the constitution.

Why should length of rule be such a large part of my opinion of him? Well, let's pick a different leader. Suppose Trump wanted to change the US Constitution so that he could remain president for an unlimited time. Would that set off alarm bells for you? It would for me.

Why would it set off alarm bells? Because that leader thinks that he needs more time in office than the rules allow, and is willing to alter the rules to do what he wants.

Also, why does he want it? One option is that he thinks that the country needs his leadership, his in particular - nobody else can do it, it has to be him. Such people have an inflated view of their own importance and competence, and a diminished sense of others' importance and competence. That often doesn't end well - the leader thinks they have no need to listed to anyone else.

The other option for "why do they think they need it" is worse - they just want the power, and are willing to remove all obstacles to get and keep it. The point of their power is to keep their power, not what is good for the country. That usually works out badly for the country.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#135

Post by arieskg »

I must’ve missed the part when China became a democracy. While I hold the same fear as China continues to aggressively pursue the Orwellian path, I seldom to see model governments that makes China second think its authoritarian decision. After all, I can’t envision other governments wanting to become US—-when excluding its resources. I hope we become better so we can emerge as the role model that we once were.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#136

Post by AnimalMuppet »

kolbe wrote: post #70
arialeks wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it disturbing from a US POV, or generally speaking? Because if I recall correctly, the US military spending has gone up significantly as well, also it's projected to rise even further in the future. On a related note, could someone explain to me how Russia manages to stay a threat with a military budget that's about 6% of the US budget? Or does it only seem to be that smaller because their soldiers are payed less?

>On a related note, could someone explain to me how Russia manages to stay a threat with a military budget that's about 6% of the US budget? Or does it only seem to be that smaller because their soldiers are payed less? Never underestimate the sheer waste and incompetence that the US Government is capable of achieving. My general model is that we get about ten cents in value for every dollar spent. So, all Russia nee…

So all Russia needs to do have all their spending deliver at 100% efficiency. That's not going to happen. Russia is a bureaucracy too...

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#137

Post by gandhium »

arialeks wrote: post #25
anthonyleecook wrote: post #4

Some other disturbing signs from China: increasing military budget https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/06/china-splash-us175-bil... , kidnapping relatives of the reporters in other countries that exposed the uigher concentration camps http://m.dw.com/en/chinese-authorities-detain-relatives-of-r... , China literally banned words and letter n in social media https://mashable.com/2018/02/28/china-bans-n-xi-jinping-term..…

Is it disturbing from a US POV, or generally speaking? Because if I recall correctly, the US military spending has gone up significantly as well, also it's projected to rise even further in the future. On a related note, could someone explain to me how Russia manages to stay a threat with a military budget that's about 6% of the US budget? Or does it only seem to be that smaller because their soldiers are payed less?

> On a related note, could someone explain to me how Russia manages to stay a threat with a military budget that's about 6% of the US budget?

It doesn't make sense to compare amounts directly - labour cost (and cost of life) in Russia is way cheaper.

And if we will compare %% of GDP - for the last decade Russia is spending same percentage (or even more) compared to US.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#138

Post by jotm »

Slansitartop wrote: post #123
jotm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very sudden decline in Chinese manufacturing, that's what. With such a bold action, many if not most US and EU businesses will pull out of China, this would be no joking matter. Still not sure there would be a WW3 over Taiwan or any other small country that is not is some sort of bigger union.

> A very sudden decline in Chinese manufacturing, that's what. With such a bold action, many if not most US and EU businesses will pull out of China, this would be no joking matter. Could that be a policy plus for China? IIRC, they have wanted to reduce their export-dependence for some time, though I'm sure that they'd prefer to accomplish it is a more gradual and controlled way.

Well, good (except for the potential war part). It would mean more work in the west.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#139

Post by squeegee5 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #120
squeegee5 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of the west, democracy is generally held in contempt. This can be dated at least as far back as Plato. Trump isn't misinformed, he believes that democracy is contemptible. And whether he is wrong is arguable.

If democracy is"contemptible" by the kinds of people that run oppressive, autocratic (soon dictatorial) Orwellian surveillance states that disappear people at the drop of a hat, I'll gladly keep my "contemptible" method of governance please. At least we can (and do) peacefully and easily vote out our leaders for someone we'd rather have.

Let's dissect this misplaced moral superiority by comparison.

Trump's USA imprisons more people per capita than any other nation. And a disproportionately large number of those people are black men. For five decades, it has increasingly walked back checks and balances on the executive branch. NSA, on behalf of USG, has demonstrated the most complete surveillance of telecommunications on the planet. The Homan Square facility was used by CPD to disappear six thousand people. This is on a tiny scale compared to the work of the Chinese state apparatus, and it was eventually shut down. But it persisted for a decade.

The USA isn't better than China by very much. Arguably, it is worse. In any case, it is a far bigger hypocrite.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#140

Post by AnimalMuppet »

squeegee5 wrote: post #90
debt wrote: post #18

I thought it was kind of odd when Trump joked that maybe the US should experiment with getting rid of term limits. The joke he made was clearly to enrage us leftists, but it also reeked of a man who doesn't fully grasp this new situation, which is actually scary. It was odd because China is an extremely advanced country and Xi Xinping made an extremely undemocratic, dictatorial move by abolishing term limits. So now…

Outside of the west, democracy is generally held in contempt. This can be dated at least as far back as Plato. Trump isn't misinformed, he believes that democracy is contemptible. And whether he is wrong is arguable.

> Trump isn't misinformed, he believes that democracy is contemptible.

That's the most frightening thing I've ever heard about a US President.

I'm not saying you're wrong, though...

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