Here Come the Fake Videos, Too • Hacker News Board

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#91

Post by x2398dh1 » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

Plausibly be trusted in what context? In a court of law? Or in the court of public opinion?

I think the general hypothesis among mass communication studies doctorates is that as soon as a technology is created and adopted by a mass audience, there are immediate examples of humans immediately using it to manipulate public opinion in some way. For example, as soon as telegrams became a thing used to manipulate public opinion (like the Zimmerman telegram), fake telegrams became a thing. As soon as online video became a thing, fake online videos became a thing (like Lonleygirl15).

Isn't what you are really saying is, "humans like to create fake things, and then a lot of people fall for those fake things." Right? Why should we buckle up for that? Isn't it already a foregone conclusion?

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#92

Post by murph-almighty » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

Steve44 wrote: post #49

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

Nikon used to provide "Image Authentication Software" which would authenticate images and show if they had been altered since taken by the camera. This was useful not only in news but also court cases. This, obviously, could not be used on tweaked published images but would work if you had access to the original frame. Most photojournalists work to a code whereby they don't amend the images at all, even tidying up, b…

I'm actually really curious about this now. Couldn't we just hash the photo and compare the file to the signature to verify authenticity?

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#93

Post by ry_ry » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

sdrothrock wrote: post #11

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

> The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. If ease of producing convincing fakes of X means that the era of X as convincing proof is over, then why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof? I think it just means that things will be scrutinized more carefully from now on, and that there will need to be a stronger document trail. > We are bac…

Anecdotally,

Whenever I receive a signed-for delivery, I'm asked to provide my name and attempt to sign on the proffered touchscreen device - invariably scrawling a shape that in no way resembles my actual signature.

I recently accepted a new role, and as part of the on-boarding digitally signed my contract by typing my name into a text box marked "Digital Signature" - I'm kinda assuming it's just a regular input box with added legalese.

Signatures are absolutely no longer proof of anything, simply a token gesture with perhaps a dash of security-by-fud tacked on.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#94

Post by hinkley » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

There are companies that make cameras that sign the images. I believe they are only used for legal proceedings now but I’m sure we could expand their use easily enough.

Any shopping would destroy the signature but that might be a good thing for dragging us back to reality.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#95

Post by IntronExon » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

ry_ry wrote: post #93

sdrothrock wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. If ease of producing convincing fakes of X means that the era of X as convincing proof is over, then why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof? I think it just means that things will be scrutinized more carefully from now on, and that there will need to be a stronger document trail. > We are bac…

Anecdotally, Whenever I receive a signed-for delivery, I'm asked to provide my name and attempt to sign on the proffered touchscreen device - invariably scrawling a shape that in no way resembles my actual signature. I recently accepted a new role, and as part of the on-boarding digitally signed my contract by typing my name into a text box marked "Digital Signature" - I'm kinda assuming it's just a regular input box…

I think a signature is less about proof of identity, than proof of consent.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#96

Post by justifier » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

Ghost in the Shell addressed this issue in 2005(o)

The Tachikoma units are debating how to stop a nuclear strike and one suggests that broadcasting a live feed of the nuclear sub would help, but the idea is reasoned against due to the technological capabilities to fake such a feed:

"Pictures don't prove anything anymore. It would just end up as a source of amusement for the uninvolved masses, an image from an unknown source that showed up at an all too convenient time."

beyond this inflection point one must now trust both the content and the source

(o) https://youtu.be/yAoj3AskFMI

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#97

Post by PeterisP » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

HeyWolfey wrote: post #53

Step 1.) Work in Silicon Valley Step 2.) Desire an advantage over your peers and competition Step 3.) Notice political hysteria and how it affects the behavior of your rivals. Step 4.) Deepfake a rival's face into a Nazi rally and send it to his professional network. Step 5.) Rinse and repeat for every rival you encounter. It's not like denying being a Nazi supporter or crying foul play ever assuages paranoid suspici…

Where's the impunity? The described actions can and will be prosecuted as libel; USA libel laws are comparably quite generous to facilitate free speech, but what's describe above is not protected.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#98

Post by sctb » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

HeyWolfey wrote: post #53

Step 1.) Work in Silicon Valley Step 2.) Desire an advantage over your peers and competition Step 3.) Notice political hysteria and how it affects the behavior of your rivals. Step 4.) Deepfake a rival's face into a Nazi rally and send it to his professional network. Step 5.) Rinse and repeat for every rival you encounter. It's not like denying being a Nazi supporter or crying foul play ever assuages paranoid suspici…

You've been posting a lot of trollish, unsubstantive comments. Could you please take a look at the guidelines and start commenting civilly and substantively?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#99

Post by HeyWolfey » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:20 PM UTC

sctb wrote: post #98

HeyWolfey wrote: post #53

Step 1.) Work in Silicon Valley Step 2.) Desire an advantage over your peers and competition Step 3.) Notice political hysteria and how it affects the behavior of your rivals. Step 4.) Deepfake a rival's face into a Nazi rally and send it to his professional network. Step 5.) Rinse and repeat for every rival you encounter. It's not like denying being a Nazi supporter or crying foul play ever assuages paranoid suspici…

You've been posting a lot of trollish, unsubstantive comments. Could you please take a look at the guidelines and start commenting civilly and substantively? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

These rules are useless and I do not recognize them as valid. I will not comply.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#100

Post by HeyWolfey » Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #97

HeyWolfey wrote: post #53

Step 1.) Work in Silicon Valley Step 2.) Desire an advantage over your peers and competition Step 3.) Notice political hysteria and how it affects the behavior of your rivals. Step 4.) Deepfake a rival's face into a Nazi rally and send it to his professional network. Step 5.) Rinse and repeat for every rival you encounter. It's not like denying being a Nazi supporter or crying foul play ever assuages paranoid suspici…

Where's the impunity? The described actions can and will be prosecuted as libel; USA libel laws are comparably quite generous to facilitate free speech, but what's describe above is not protected.

Parody is very much protected.