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Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

nytimes.com

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Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#11

Post by sdrothrock »

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

> The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over.

If ease of producing convincing fakes of X means that the era of X as convincing proof is over, then why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof?

I think it just means that things will be scrutinized more carefully from now on, and that there will need to be a stronger document trail.

> We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and anecdote dominate again.

And I definitely don't think it's as grim as this.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#13

Post by dzhiurgis »

gnbfulbvgjbvv wrote: post #9
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

No, this is an opportunity for new technology that adds additional data stream(s) to audio/video to ensure authenticity. Perhaps something like a one way hash of physical properties related to time/position and the rasterized data, in a way that cannot be faked.. or maybe a move away from rasterized data. Idk. Just brainstorming. I’m confident there will be an innovation in this space since there is clearly a very ur…

Or a DRM chip implanted in every human.

“Warning: the person in picture doesn’t have Widevine chip installed”.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#14

Post by gnbfulbvgjbvv »

dtech wrote: post #8
Choco31415 wrote: post #3

10+ years ago we started getting the technologies for facial land mark detection, and now we have facial swapping. Currently we have the beginnings of good full-body pose derection, and I imagine soon we’ll eventually have full body swapping (maybe along with clothes). That raises interesting questions. As legitimate looking sources become harder to trust, what other ways can we verify them? One idea that was floatin…

I don't believe a signing solution is feasible. It's currently too complicated for even a lot of IT experts, and the amount of actors involved is too large to even move to a single unified solution. Given that as of now authenticity can still be verified by experts, it's back to trusting journalistic outlets to properly verify news and sources.

Reminds me of tango and cash. Is this really true? Any sources for such verification techniques?

One might think that, given low enough resolution, any form of rasterized video or sampled audio can be convincingly faked even to experts, particularly once those with the faking technology fully assimilate such verification techniques so as to work around them.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#17

Post by EGreg »

anoplus wrote: post #12

We will probably need AI based fake news detection.

That won't work. It's like saying to beat AlphaGo we just need AlphaGo.

It would already be factored in. The arms race would just make the videos MORE indistinguishable from the real thing.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#18

Post by gboudrias »

gnbfulbvgjbvv wrote: post #9
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

No, this is an opportunity for new technology that adds additional data stream(s) to audio/video to ensure authenticity. Perhaps something like a one way hash of physical properties related to time/position and the rasterized data, in a way that cannot be faked.. or maybe a move away from rasterized data. Idk. Just brainstorming. I’m confident there will be an innovation in this space since there is clearly a very ur…

A short-lived opportunity for sure. This is the very definition of an arms race, amd I can't see "real" winning out over fake. Anything that can be checked can be preempted, so "real" is always one step behind, as far as the present is concerned.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#19

Post by mattnewton »

sdrothrock wrote: post #11
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

> The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. If ease of producing convincing fakes of X means that the era of X as convincing proof is over, then why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof? I think it just means that things will be scrutinized more carefully from now on, and that there will need to be a stronger document trail. > We are bac…

>why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof

I always thought this was tradition / theatre at this point.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#20

Post by andreascmj »

Choco31415 wrote: post #3

10+ years ago we started getting the technologies for facial land mark detection, and now we have facial swapping. Currently we have the beginnings of good full-body pose derection, and I imagine soon we’ll eventually have full body swapping (maybe along with clothes). That raises interesting questions. As legitimate looking sources become harder to trust, what other ways can we verify them? One idea that was floatin…

Couldn't blockchain be a great tool here? The original hash is uploaded to the blockchain at the time of the recording, then you can verify that nothing has changed since then.
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