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Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

nytimes.com

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Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#21

Post by tjoff »

sh33mp wrote: post #7
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

Is this true though? Sure, for a casual observer, these new methods for generating videos appear convincing, but is that the right bar to judge "ability to fake evidence"? As far as I know, there have always been more sophisticated techniques and forensics to determine if an image is doctored, and likewise for video. I've not seen any research tackling fooling those methods yet, and I would bet that naive implementat…

Does that matter?

On Internet the judgement is quick, long before the truth has revealed itself lives has been destroyed, jobs lost and reputation irreparably damaged.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#22

Post by justonepost »

I've always felt that deepfakes are a net positive. Think of all the revenge videos that will be rendered moot. The Jennifer Lawrences of the world can stop stressing because nobody will take any of it seriously anymore.

It's kind of like those pornographic clones of popular kids cartoons. People freaked out at first, but really you don't hear much about it these days.

Sort of like an anti-virus inoculation when you think about it.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#23

Post by [deleted] »

sdrothrock wrote: post #11
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

> The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. If ease of producing convincing fakes of X means that the era of X as convincing proof is over, then why are signatures and written documents still taken as proof? I think it just means that things will be scrutinized more carefully from now on, and that there will need to be a stronger document trail. > We are bac…

[deleted]

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#24

Post by dalbasal »

sh33mp wrote: post #7
tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

Is this true though? Sure, for a casual observer, these new methods for generating videos appear convincing, but is that the right bar to judge "ability to fake evidence"? As far as I know, there have always been more sophisticated techniques and forensics to determine if an image is doctored, and likewise for video. I've not seen any research tackling fooling those methods yet, and I would bet that naive implementat…

I question becomes, does that matter? If everything needs to go through forensic experts, that works for courts. For media, who knows. Maybe it just becomes another way to challenge anything.

There's always been a certain value to letting people see things themselves, and use their non-expert judgement directly, en masse. Think of that iconic image of a Vietnamese girl escaping napalm or (more recently) the drowned refugee child on that Turkish beach. These had value past the factual information.

In any case, I think the Photoshop/stills case is a little heartening. We get an occasional false image, but overall it hasn't created some sort of massive truth-crisis. Other stuff did happen to truth, but Photoshop wasn't at the centre of it.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#25

Post by skc »

I live in and work in a small African country with very corrupt leadership. This stuff disturbs me ever so deeply. I can easily see a future where despotic governments use this technology to wipe out their detractors.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#26

Post by [deleted] »

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

[deleted]

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#27

Post by zapita »

tjoff wrote: post #21
sh33mp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true though? Sure, for a casual observer, these new methods for generating videos appear convincing, but is that the right bar to judge "ability to fake evidence"? As far as I know, there have always been more sophisticated techniques and forensics to determine if an image is doctored, and likewise for video. I've not seen any research tackling fooling those methods yet, and I would bet that naive implementat…

Does that matter? On Internet the judgement is quick, long before the truth has revealed itself lives has been destroyed, jobs lost and reputation irreparably damaged.

But that was already true with words alone. Lives are already ruined every day by baseless claims with zero evidence, no video required. People who already research the source of words before forming an opinion will now research the source of videos, too. Those who are fooled by written and spoken lies will also be fooled by animated ones.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#28

Post by justonepost »

tbabb wrote: post #5

The era of verifiability-- when photographic and video evidence could plausibly be trusted-- is over. Photos have been dubious since photoshop, but still required expertise and artistry to use. Fake moving pictures required considerably more extensive expertise, lots of time, and usually specialized equipment. None of that is true anymore. We are back to a pre-industrial age of discourse, where rumor and hearsay and…

Yeah, this is an interesting issue, but CCTVs are kind of invasive anyways privacy wise so maybe that's a good thing.

They're still useful for realtime monitoring though, which is good for security.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#29

Post by nukeop »

justonepost wrote: post #22

I've always felt that deepfakes are a net positive. Think of all the revenge videos that will be rendered moot. The Jennifer Lawrences of the world can stop stressing because nobody will take any of it seriously anymore. It's kind of like those pornographic clones of popular kids cartoons. People freaked out at first, but really you don't hear much about it these days. Sort of like an anti-virus inoculation when you…

I don't think Jennifer Lawrence was particularly saddened about increased media attention around her that was timed precisely at the peak of her career.

Re: Here Come the Fake Videos, Too

#30

Post by justonepost »

nukeop wrote: post #29
justonepost wrote: post #22

I've always felt that deepfakes are a net positive. Think of all the revenge videos that will be rendered moot. The Jennifer Lawrences of the world can stop stressing because nobody will take any of it seriously anymore. It's kind of like those pornographic clones of popular kids cartoons. People freaked out at first, but really you don't hear much about it these days. Sort of like an anti-virus inoculation when you…

I don't think Jennifer Lawrence was particularly saddened about increased media attention around her that was timed precisely at the peak of her career.

Sure, that's possible. But then such cheap theatrics will be rendered moot as well.

Anyways, I can assure you that there are a lot of women who are near suicidal over these things. By undermining their authenticity I think a lot of women will be secretly happy for deepfakes.

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