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Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

cand.pglaf.org

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Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#411

Post by sentenza »

greenyoda wrote: post #125
jaakl wrote: post #32

> PGLAF is entirely in the US PGLAF has awesome mission, but that base assumption is not really correct. With publishing content in Germany (or whatever country) over Internet (or otherwise) they have crossed physical and legal borders. You must obey local laws everywhere and US laws are legal in their soil only. The attitude that US laws are something globally applicable and Internet is something above local laws is…

> total blockage “revenge” is just plain childish The article claims that they're doing it to protect themselves from future lawsuits, not as "revenge": "Q: Why block all of Germany, rather than just those 18 books? A: PGLAF's legal advisors disagree with all claims that there must be any blocking, or removal, or anything associated - censorship, fines/fees, disclaimers, etc. - for items that are in the public domain…

> The article claims that they're doing it to protect themselves from future lawsuits, not as "revenge":

Then the article is disingenuous, because the same copyright period and liabilities exist in most EU countries.

Singling out Germany because a German company was first to sue is pure revenge.

If they wanted to protect themselves, they would block the whole EU and a whole lot of countries outside the EU, not just Germany.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#412

Post by einrealist »

tehlike wrote: post #6
dsacco wrote: post #5

Can someone in Germany confirm this block is actually in place? In any case, if anyone in Germany would like to access Project Gutenberg, I maintain a full, daily updated mirror here: https://mirrors.sorengard.com/gutenberg . I also support FTP and Rsync if you’d like to download that way. No donations are asked for, but it would be helpful if more people hosted mirrors for precisely this reason :). Unfortunately thi…

Can anything be made using ipfs?

Isn't IPFS peer to peer? Then it would be no different than using Torrent clients. Users would be just noticed or sued individually.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#413

Post by maxzda »

dsacco wrote: post #5

Can someone in Germany confirm this block is actually in place? In any case, if anyone in Germany would like to access Project Gutenberg, I maintain a full, daily updated mirror here: https://mirrors.sorengard.com/gutenberg . I also support FTP and Rsync if you’d like to download that way. No donations are asked for, but it would be helpful if more people hosted mirrors for precisely this reason :). Unfortunately thi…

Still works for me

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#414

Post by lolc »

tempestn wrote: post #310
762236 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did they do the right thing by participating in a court that has no jurisdiction? Why would they participate in that? Doesn't participating extend legitimacy to the claims, and make one subject the outcome (including paying the legal fees when losing)?

No more so than if they didn't participate. It's generally suggested that if someone sues you in a jurisdiction that you care about, you show up to defend yourself. Otherwise you'll simply have summary judgement entered against you. Now, in this case since the plaintiffs won, it probably wouldn't have been any worse—and likely cheaper due to lower legal costs—but they couldn't know that going in.

They are appealing the decision.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#415

Post by usr1106 »

vageli wrote: post #395
usr1106 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany believes it can sue over anything in the german language You did not read the ruling (carefully). The language of the books was not discussed at all. It was discussed whether the offer (to download books) is directed to people in Germany. Project Gutenberg said "NO", because they use a .org domain. (Obviously trying to claim that Germans only visit .de domains and neglecting the fact that .org is really try…

Why doesn't Austria have jurisdiction for German content, do they not speak German in Austria? Do UK courts have jurisdiction over companies which produce content in English? It's absurd to think that an element to establishing jurisdiction is the language content is produced in.

They said they have jurisdiction because the contents is directed (also) to users in Germany. They said nothing about exclusive jurisdiction or exclusively directed to Germany. They also ruled that access to the average user in Germany must not be easy (acknowledging that the user decided to download can circumvent it.) There was not a word about making the contents available to users in any other country.

In the context of existing copyright laws the ruling is understandable. It's just plain nonsense to have contradicting copyright laws in the age of a global internet. And if you say that copyright should only be enforced according to the country of the distributor then you just move all contents to a country that does not enforce at all. But isn't it just the US that complains a lot about (their) IP not enforced in China or Vietnam?

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#416

Post by expertentipp »

sqldba wrote: post #359
merb wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not blocked. I could've even download "Der Vater" one of the eBooks from the case. And yes german copyright laws are a fucking joke.

> copyright laws are a fucking joke. Fixed that for you :-)

German ones are a particularly dark one.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#417

Post by expertentipp »

netsharc wrote: post #50
dsacco wrote: post #5

Can someone in Germany confirm this block is actually in place? In any case, if anyone in Germany would like to access Project Gutenberg, I maintain a full, daily updated mirror here: https://mirrors.sorengard.com/gutenberg . I also support FTP and Rsync if you’d like to download that way. No donations are asked for, but it would be helpful if more people hosted mirrors for precisely this reason :). Unfortunately thi…

Based on how media companies sue German torrent sharers (it's a cash cow for the law firms, like the one that is involved here, Waldorf Frommer), they sue individuals for making copyrighted content available on the internet -- because when you're torrenting something other people can get the completed parts from your computer, so if you run a mirror which is accessible from Germany, you will probably get a letter fro…

> Waldorf Frommer

Oh they are still around?! Someone should shut them down and jail for the mere reason of the enourmous amount of paper they waste on trolling letters.

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#418

Post by mseebach »

abalone wrote: post #397
gowld wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PG decided they don't have time to deal with Germany's BS, so they implemented the simplest solution guaranteed to work.

More like retaliated to make a point. For comparison, if they faced a U.S. publisher demand to block some books that were in violation, and in response they blocked all of the U.S., it would be misleading to suggest this was merely the "simplest solution".

If German courts maintains that making content available in Germany (ie, putting it on the Internet) gives them jurisdiction over your organisation, your choices are to be compliant with German law, or not to be available in Germany. PGLAF does not have the budget, nor the philosophical inclination to be compliant with German law, so that leaves one option. As you quoted in your GP, they have no reason to believe this will end with these 18 works, so the alternative really is compliance, not just blocking 18 works.

I'm sure PGLAF will welcome a German spin-off that makes works available in a manner compliant with German law, they just don't have the resources to be that place.

(Oh, and so what if they retaliated? Seems like a perfectly reasonable excuse for a bit of theatrics.)

Re: Project Gutenberg blocks access from Germany

#420

Post by aaron695 »

FabHK wrote: post #372
CO-VAX wrote: post #41

I just donated $100 to PGLAF because they are fighting the good fight. Their donation page [0] includes "Think of this as a contribution to your grandchildren." However in this instance I think of it as a contribution against publishers (ab)using the justice system much like so-called patent trolls. > Q: The plaintiff is S. Fischer Verlag, GmbH. Is that the international conglomerate? > A: Yes, it is part of a family…

I'm somewhat hesitant to post this as I don't condone online bullying, but if you wish to send a polite message explaining your opinion about this, here are some contacts: Fischer Verlage: Twitter: @Fischer_Presse Phone: +49 69 6062-0 Fax: +49 69 6062-214 Fischer Verlage, Sales: https://www.fischerverlage.de/kontakt/verkauf_vertrieb Fischer Verlage, Legal and Licenses: https://www.fischerverlage.de/kontakt/rechte_liz…

Doxing is doxing.

Phones are pretty personal and threatening. It'd take a very experienced person to call them and be polite and not come over as threatening and be productive all at once.

Maybe they deserve it, or maybe it's the best way forward for society but be aware of what you are calling for.

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