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China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

nytimes.com

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Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#81

Post by Slansitartop »

ilamont wrote: post #17

Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies. Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin, plays up his family connections (via his wife's family), and puts on the charm when visiting China. He's created relationships with officials at every leve…

> Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin...

He even positively blurbed Xi's doorstop of a book: https://www.amazon.com/Xi-Jinping-Governance-English-Languag...

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#82

Post by EggsOnToast »

larkeith wrote: post #70
EggsOnToast wrote: post #54

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in t…

Perhaps this is me being overly cynical, but a state-run social media platform seems like a recipe for massive, invisible, unchecked government surveillance and/or censorship. The last several years have made it abundantly clear that many parts of the US government do not consider privacy a right, and while our rights to free speech remain intact, I do not believe it is safe to assume this will remain the case across…

I agree and this is why I would argue in favor of parallelism rather than replacement with regard to private social media platforms. I think it's important that there is a platform insulated from domestic intervention, but I think it's just as important to have a platform that isn't vulnerable to outside economic influence. Right now the best solution I can think of is to do both separately and just accept that one will probably be redundant to the other most of the time.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#83

Post by [deleted] »

forapurpose wrote: post #71

(Pardon the bit of philosophy, but I think it's on-topic, well-grounded, and substantially novel (at least to me!):) The myriad of issues of the present era seem chaotic, but I'm starting to believe I see the defining theme, the one that will characterize it in history books, and I see the story in the article as merely a part of it: The contest between democracy and liberty on one hand, and wealth and power for an e…

[deleted]

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#85

Post by whatyoucantsay »

ilamont wrote: post #17

Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies. Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin, plays up his family connections (via his wife's family), and puts on the charm when visiting China. He's created relationships with officials at every leve…

>> China leaned heavily on major internet companies when Guo Wengui, a Chinese tycoon in self-imposed exile, went on Facebook and YouTube to accuse a number of Chinese officials of corruption...

> Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies.

One way to test the truthfulness of Facebook's claim is to see whether or not they suspend the accounts of users who make corruption claims about US officials. Surely there were a lot of such claims involving personal information about politicians during the last election cycle. Did Facebook suspend those accounts?

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#86

Post by closeparen »

mirimir wrote: post #68
EggsOnToast wrote: post #54

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in t…

Conversely, it's arguable that we need social platforms that are immune to censorship by any state or private party. Such as properly implemented Tor onion services. But readily accessible from the open Internet.

You're posting this comment on Hacker News and not 4Chan for a reason. Censorship is absolutely essential to make an internet community tolerable to people outside a tiny cohort of edgelords.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#87

Post by whatyoucantsay »

doctorstupid wrote: post #72
tombh wrote: post #29

Whilst I think there's some merit in the recent increase in China articles here. The tone of this one seems sensational. What I find most intriguing about discovering China is what it says about me and the so-called West. China's influence is growing you say? My first reaction is concern, but my second is humility, as if looking in a mirror. I can't help but feel a little like this article immaturely criticises a top…

This isn't about western power, it's about western values being protected in the west. I'm sure that people wouldn't be so concerned if China kept its censorship within its borders. As far as I know the west doesn't systematically subvert Chinese values within China.

The US sure tries to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#88

Post by blackrock »

megaman22 wrote: post #63
sehugg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a bunch: https://screenrant.com/movies-changed-for-china/

The one that really sticks out is the recent Red Dawn remake. I mean, really, North Korea is going to invade the pacific coast? It was clearly written about Communist China, that's the only way the movie could have made the slightest bit of sense, but they kowtowed and turned it into a dumpster fire, and they still didn't procure release rights there.

True, they requested that Red Dawn be re-edited, so that China was not the bad guy. I have not seen the movie, nor do I care to.

However, let's think about this situation for a moment, as rational adults. And if you can, then try to think about this from the other side.

There is a lot of bad blood coming out of American media about China. It's in the news, the movies, the TV shows, the literature, it's everywhere. Unless you are dense, then I think this can be established as a fact. China is continually being painted as the big bad scary commie, that's out to eat your children (or something like that), or at least, they're taking your iPhone assembling slavery jobs.

A movie like this, would add more fuel to the fire. You, as an intelligent individual may be able to distinguish that Red Dawn is a fictional movie, with good and bad guys. And this sells tickets. And Americans love this! They want a big bad evil enemy, that their country can destroy. And right now, China is it!

However, can you guarantee that another American, of lesser educational intelligence than yourself, can distinguish such a thing? That this is pure fiction, and not a proxy of reality.

Nobody wants to be painted as the bad guy. Americans movies will certainly never paint America as the bad guy, despite the fact that millions have died at the receiving end of American weapons. In fact, I can't recall any media where America is painted as the bad guy.

The Chinese people certainly don't want to see themselves as the bad guys. Especially not when it's a historical fact, that they have been severely dominated by Western nations. And hundreds of millions of their people have suffered and died. And to this day, there are certain white people, that are proud of what their race did to China in the 1800s. And if you find this shocking, please let me know. You can find this perception all over the internet, and you can poll your close friends, and ask them what they truly think.

Anyways, movies are political statements. When you make it too real, then it hits too close to home. And there are certain dangers with that kind of propaganda. And it will certainly upset the people on the receiving end of it.

Stick to making movies about aliens and their probing devices, zombies, and superheros in tights. Or killing the evil German Nazis. Nobody will question these kinds of movies.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#89

Post by derriz »

blackrock wrote: post #88
megaman22 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one that really sticks out is the recent Red Dawn remake. I mean, really, North Korea is going to invade the pacific coast? It was clearly written about Communist China, that's the only way the movie could have made the slightest bit of sense, but they kowtowed and turned it into a dumpster fire, and they still didn't procure release rights there.

True, they requested that Red Dawn be re-edited, so that China was not the bad guy. I have not seen the movie, nor do I care to. However, let's think about this situation for a moment, as rational adults. And if you can, then try to think about this from the other side. There is a lot of bad blood coming out of American media about China. It's in the news, the movies, the TV shows, the literature, it's everywhere. Un…

I understand that no one likes being painted as the bad guy, but this is a very odd claim: "Americans movies will certainly never paint America as the bad guy, despite the fact that millions have died at the receiving end of American weapons. In fact, I can't recall any media where America is painted as the bad guy."

I'm not American but this suggests you have experienced very little of the variety of American movies or general media? There are not only plenty of American movies and media critical of America and American policy but there is a long history of such. Without going back too far in history, the media presentation of the Vietnam war, for example, may be something of a cliché but it's a valid example.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#90

Post by gurkendoktor »

closeparen wrote: post #86
mirimir wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, it's arguable that we need social platforms that are immune to censorship by any state or private party. Such as properly implemented Tor onion services. But readily accessible from the open Internet.

You're posting this comment on Hacker News and not 4Chan for a reason. Censorship is absolutely essential to make an internet community tolerable to people outside a tiny cohort of edgelords.

The important distinction is censorship of citizen-vs-citizen aggression, and censorship of political dissent. (If Hacker News unconditionally deleted all criticism of YC companies, I'd visit 4chan instead.)

And that implies we can't solve the issue with technology alone. Moderation needs to be possible, but we have to figure out a way to prevent abuse.

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