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China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

nytimes.com

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Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#51

Post by incompatible »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #22
ilamont wrote: post #17

Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies. Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin, plays up his family connections (via his wife's family), and puts on the charm when visiting China. He's created relationships with officials at every leve…

Did Mr. Guo in fact publish the personal information of others? If so, should Facebook make an exception for him because he's an activist? (If he didn't, then of course Facebook should, first, not suspend his account to appease China, and second, not lie about why they did.)

I suppose corrupt dealings are personal details, so exposing corrupt dealings (in a credible way, with details) is likely to involve publishing the personal information of others.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#52

Post by forapurpose »

China has great influence in Hollywood, where major studios edit their films to meet Chinese censorship demands. When Disney made a film about the Dalai Lama, several years later the CEO of Disney traveled to China and apologized in person, saying it would never happen again. The Chinese government is literally censoring political content in the United States and other Western countries.

Here's a cite for the Disney story. I've read about Chinese censors reviewing films, and Hollywood self-censoring, but I don't have time to find those cites.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/15/business/international/ch...

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#53

Post by sehugg »

forapurpose wrote: post #52

China has great influence in Hollywood, where major studios edit their films to meet Chinese censorship demands. When Disney made a film about the Dalai Lama, several years later the CEO of Disney traveled to China and apologized in person, saying it would never happen again. The Chinese government is literally censoring political content in the United States and other Western countries. Here's a cite for the Disney…

There's a bunch: https://screenrant.com/movies-changed-for-china/

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#54

Post by EggsOnToast »

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in this context, have become just as fundamentally important to discussions and grassroots politics as the street corner once was.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#55

Post by doctorstupid »

robtaylor wrote: post #13
Gustomaximus wrote: post #5

Australia is deeply involved in this. China are actively trying to control conversation with Chinese students and immigrants here. The govt has literally bought all Chinese language press and semi regularly run full page 'articles' in the major press. They have been caught out several time pressuring universities and placing disruptive people in lectures that discuss areas they don't want. I believed agents recently…

Sources?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-04/australian-sovereignty...

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#56

Post by Analemma_ »

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #26
biesnecker wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” Because they have a fiduciary duty to, obviously.

Quoting Stalin? Classy. Have any good Hitler quotes you want to share while you're at it?

Stalin didn’t say it: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#57

Post by malloryerik »

EggsOnToast wrote: post #54

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in t…

You'd then have different social platforms for different countries.

Instead of run by the state, governments could choose to give out vouchers redeemable only at social platforms that charge users directly for their services instead of relying on the advertising and data-sales game.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#58

Post by zombieprocesses »

Isn't everyone trying to police what people say online now? Least of all the nytimes and the rest of the media? Europe does it. We do it. The media advocates for it. Is it just bad when the chinese do it?

90% of the time everyone here seems to support censorship and control over social media. Then the story is about china and everyone is against it.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#59

Post by EggsOnToast »

malloryerik wrote: post #57
EggsOnToast wrote: post #54

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in t…

You'd then have different social platforms for different countries. Instead of run by the state, governments could choose to give out vouchers redeemable only at social platforms that charge users directly for their services instead of relying on the advertising and data-sales game.

I think your criticism is valid but I don't see it as unsolvable. Interconnectivity and decisions around how to facilitate it can be added later. While they are important elements for global dialogue, the first and foremost goal should be cultivating a domestic product that is suffiently feature rich to be a valid alternative to the current offerings. Interconnectivity with other social networks is a secondary goal that can be pursued as things progress.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#60

Post by ethiclub »

EggsOnToast wrote: post #54

This is just me soapboxing, but I would argue that situations like this illustrate a need for online social platforms run by the state. I realize the obvious vulnerabilities of such a setup, but if we believe free speech to be an essential element of our societies then we need social platforms beholden only to our own laws even if they simply exist in parallel to private platforms. The internet, and social media in t…

Such a platform is desperately hard to argue for, but I suspect that a trusted, basic platform provided by governments will become defacto in many nations within our lifetimes. We do have component precedent cases to build upon in Estonia, with the (failed) British ID cards etc, but I do wish a nation somewhere was further along. Perhaps small countries Luxembourg, Belgium, principities and Estonia are the places to keep an eye on rather than China, USA et al?

I also believe that such a platform is the quickest path towards incorruptible technocracies, slowly but surely through referendums being opened up through the platform (small, local decisions at first).

If this does not occur in the public sector, then I view governments as the taxi industry to capitalism's uber, and it will be the free market (controlled by increasingly intelligent public demand more than lagging legsislation) that starts to provide more 'pure democracy' behaviors. (As an aside, I wonder whether we shall start to see more interestingly structured IPOs)

The cynic in me sadly suspects that socialism just isn't fast enough, and that the free market will be the dominant tool for change - But that slowly but surely, public voice will become a more ethical one - In this era we are in which is surely a second age of enlightenment. Hopefully this will sculpt the free market to be more aligned with the commons, and less brutally and bluntly aimed at collecting $.

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