YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#331

Post by apta » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #180

netheril96 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This starts with the [diversity pledge]( http://thehill.com/policy/technology/284517-white-house-pres... ) pushed by Obama administration, including companies like Airbnb, Box, GitHub, GoDaddy, Intel, Lyft, Medium. No wonder many Asians sigh relief when Clinton failed her presidency, or she surely would have pushed for more.

That is not accurate according to 2016 votes: http://aaldef.org/TheAsianAmericanVote2016-AALDEF.pdf 79% of Asians voted for Clinton.

You mean 70% of Asians who voted, voted for her.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#332

Post by apta » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #273

rendall wrote: post #271

"The latter suit was filed by plaintiff James Damore, an engineer who was fired from the company last year for distributing a memo that suggested men were better suited to certain tech jobs than women. " Excuse me. Hold on. Aaaaararrrrrarrrrgh!!!11!!! Sorry. Had to get that out of my system. It is frustrating to read the same misapprehension over and over and over. Once again: James Damore's memo suggested no such th…

When multiple degree educated people who use language as a tool of their job continue to misunderstand what damore said maybe the problem is with his piss-poor communication, and not their understanding. When very many people who read his document come to the same conclusion maybe, just maybe, that's what he actually said.

While I haven't read what he wrote, it may not be directly due to bad communication. I'm strongly inclined to believe that anyone going against the grain on this matter, even with logical and study-backed arguments will not end up in a good position (see e.g. Jordan Peterson).

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#333

Post by alanlovestea » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 11:54 PM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #256

sin7 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. California is 39% Hispanic, 38.8% White, 5.8% Black and 13% Asian. California has 40 Million people. Let's say half have not graduated college yet and are not in the employee pool. That means 8 Million Hispanics, 8 Million whites, 1.16 Million Blacks and 2.6 Million Asians. Taking this new information into account, Asians should be around 37% of the employees, Blacks less than 1%, Hispanics around 9% and Whites 5…

Based on those assumptions, which I'll iterate below first, let's get the numbers: 1) hiring based on IQ, cutoff at 2 standard deviations above the global mean (mu = 100, sigma = 15, by design), 2 sigma above that makes 130. You get hired if you're the candidate with the highest IQ, if you satisfy the minimum of an IQ of 130 2) 8/20 hispanic, 8/20 white, 1.16/20 black, 2.6/20 asians (and let's just pretned that sums…

What does the first number in N(90, 15) mean? the median IQ of a given race? I guess the truth is hurting people's feeling.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#334

Post by omikun » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 12:10 AM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #157

danieltillett wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t complain about being down voted. To answer your question the issue of discrimination is solved by not discriminating. If women and others are being discriminated against then stop doing this, rather than just start discriminating against other people.

I know this is not popular, but honestly how do you stop discrimination against women and others? It is easy to say “stop doing this,” but does that happen?

You stop discrimination by changing the brand. Many people have the impression that women aren't good at STEM, so hire more high quality women. Can't find enough of them? Grow your own. Google can start free bootcamps and apprenticeships aimed at women (men are welcomed too of course, just like women in engineering groups), don't graduate them until they meet a certain level of excellence. It might be more expensive, but rebranding is not cheap.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#335

Post by candiodari » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:20 AM UTC

alanlovestea wrote: post #333

candiodari wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on those assumptions, which I'll iterate below first, let's get the numbers: 1) hiring based on IQ, cutoff at 2 standard deviations above the global mean (mu = 100, sigma = 15, by design), 2 sigma above that makes 130. You get hired if you're the candidate with the highest IQ, if you satisfy the minimum of an IQ of 130 2) 8/20 hispanic, 8/20 white, 1.16/20 black, 2.6/20 asians (and let's just pretned that sums…

What does the first number in N(90, 15) mean? the median IQ of a given race? I guess the truth is hurting people's feeling.

It's shorthand for a normal distribution with mu=90 sigma=15.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#336

Post by cwperkins » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:50 AM UTC

sin7 wrote: post #300

GCU-Empiricist wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of those populations have the requisite secondary education and or experience (coding, statistics, marketing, electrical engineering) to work at Google? Before you try to just match up a general population to a workforce let's at least try to have a representative sample of what the "pool of qualified applicants" looks like.

I assume you are saying that Blacks and Hispanics will not meet the educational standards. Asians will and they are under represented. The level of the problem doesn't matter. Working at Google is an elite job. We could go a level lower to Stanford. Asians are under represented at Stanford. We could go down a level to an elite California High School. Asians are still under represented. Blacks and Hispanics are really…

The guy asked a question, can we stop making these assumptions? It's childish, it's more constructive to provide the statistics the inquirer asked for.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#337

Post by alanlovestea » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 1:59 AM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #220

protomyth wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how did they get the cast ballots with the voters race to do their count? Polling, particularly in the last election, was atrocious.

How well do you suspect Trump’s anti-immigration and nationalist push play with the Asian community? Making it difficult for families to immigrate together via family visa and reducing work visas does not play well. The polling methodology is present in the report I posted.

don't be fooled by the media. Trump supports legal immigration and is allocating more quota to legal immigrants. As a result, tons of legal immigrants support Trump.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#338

Post by elihu » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 2:10 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #307

staunch wrote: post #14

I suspect Google, YouTube, YC, and many other Silicon Valley companies have followed a similar pattern: Step #1 Discriminate against the lower classes through a biased hiring process that favors upper class people over more qualified members of the 99%. A system of "culture" tests, nepotism, and simple favoritism. The "elite" investors fund the "elite" founders which hire "elite" friends. Step #2 Realize your policy…

"Merit" as defined by whom, and measured how? I doubt that many companies disregard the idea of hiring based on merit. They all try to do that, they were trying to do that all along, but that only got them to your step 2. So what do you when even your best effort to create a purely merit-based system has empirically failed to overcome unconscious or structural bias? What's your magic prescription?

One way to be more meritocratic is to not allow certain kinds of information to influence the hiring decision. For instance, suppose the ones making the decision are allowed to know what the candidate's skills are and what they've done, but not allowed to know where (or if) they went to school, and they're not allowed to know if their previous experience came from an employer or if it was something they did on their own, or how many years they spent doing those things.

Making the hiring decision would be harder because there's not as much information to go on, and it's not too hard to fake a superficial understanding of some technology. Presumably one would rely more heavily on rigorous aptitude testing (i.e. more of those whiteboard exercises everyone seems to hate and probably have bias problems of their own).

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#339

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 2:12 AM UTC

alanlovestea wrote: post #337

spicymaki wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well do you suspect Trump’s anti-immigration and nationalist push play with the Asian community? Making it difficult for families to immigrate together via family visa and reducing work visas does not play well. The polling methodology is present in the report I posted.

don't be fooled by the media. Trump supports legal immigration and is allocating more quota to legal immigrants. As a result, tons of legal immigrants support Trump.

> Trump supports legal immigration and is allocating more quota to legal immigrants

Trump has proposed eliminating many of the major existing categories of legal immigration in the core, family-owned action based system. He's proposed replacing the eliminated categories with a small number of renewable non-immigrant (no path to citizenship or work permission) visas for parents of US citizens.

He's proposed no concrete increase in total permanent allocation in the remaining categories, though he's talked about cancelling the diversity visa lottery and reallocating the quota used there to help clear backlogs elsewhere.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#340

Post by burntrelish1273 » Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 6:47 AM UTC

Not sure this has ever happened to me. I'm very pale and male, and always have recruiters coming after me for SRE gigs. Maybe this happens, but I've not see it. It's irrational to hire based on anything other than merit, although I understand diversity is good because I don't prefer to work with only white/asian dudes either. Hire everyone qualified, especially people whom don't look like yourself.