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Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

theguardian.com

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Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#171

Post by CaptainZapp »

procinct wrote: post #5
astrodust wrote: post #2

Uber is losing billions and their drivers are making peanuts. That sounds sustainable.

They are basically biding their time until driverless cars take off it seems.

That's what I never really got. The fact that self driving cars will be the savior for Uber.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the concept is viable in urban areas within 5 years and Uber puts a massive fleet of self driving vehicles on the road.

While it's certainly true that they wouldn't have to pay drivers it would be a massive shift in capital investment.

The "genius" of Uber is shifting the necessary capital investment for hundreds of thousands of vehicles onto the drivers.

Assuming one car costs 30K (which I think is on the very low side) it costs 3Billion to put 100'000 cars (which also seems very low with Uber's global ambition) on the road.

That's an upfront investment currently incurred by the drivers.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#172

Post by CaptainZapp »

DanielDent wrote: post #110
Steeeve wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

The SkyTrain in Vancouver, Canada does not have drivers. It has been in service since it was built for the 1986 World Expo. Autonomous trains are not nearly as widespread as they could be, but this is not for technical reasons - it is for political reasons.

Paris' metro # 14 is driverless.

The new lines under construction (15, 16, 17 & 18, which will serve the greater Paris area) will also be fully automated.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#173

Post by BlackKaylar »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #129
foobarian wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Taxicabs such as in NYC are famously expensive to buy into, and yet drivers somehow afford it and make livings on them. So if they are clearly not losing money, why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficient due to use of computers can't make a profit? Are the tech overheads really that high?

Taxicabs such as in NYC are (were) monopolies. The price you paid was far above what the market rate should have been, which is why drivers were able to make livings on them. Uber/Lyft are simply forcing prices back down to the market rate which is where the prices should be in a free market. Driving isn't really something that should be a career. > "Why is it that a company that's supposed to be vastly more efficien…

> 'Driving isn't really something that should be a career'

I haven't read more ambiguous and ludicrous statement on here ever.

Please evaluate your point, because if you are right then a huge number of workers across the globe should not have a career in driving.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#175

Post by hrasyid »

pesfandiar wrote: post #142
UncleEntity wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is they are attempting to put the competition out of business by running at a loss then adjust the rates to where they can make money which, coincidentally, will be be almost exactly the amounts the "evil" taxi companies were charging. I could be totally wrong but if I were a betting man...

That's still a win for consumers, because they certainly raised the bar for customer experience. They run leaner than old-fashioned cab companies and can keep prices lower at the end too.

Is it a win for society, though? If they ended up being a stronger and more global monopoly than cab companies, the savings from being "leaner" would just end up in the pockets of the few and everyone else would not be better off.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#176

Post by rmc »

omarforgotpwd wrote: post #170
davebryand wrote: post #52

I question the authenticity of the $3.37 number when I see that the paper this article references was published by an organization funded by these bodies: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, BP, ClearPath Foundation, Conoco Phillips, Duke Energy, Electricité de France, EnBW, ENGIE, ENI, Eversource, Exelon Corporation, ExxonMobil, Gas Natural Fenosa, GE, Golden Spread Electric Cooperative, Inc., Iberdrola, IHI Corpo…

Why would those companies want to smear Uber? Many of them profit from uber. Uber sells a ton of gas and cars.

Additionally, Uber usage encourages car ownership and usage, as opposed to cycling or public transport.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#177

Post by Nursie »

gambiting wrote: post #169
visarga wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question would have made sense 10-20 years ago.

No, I'm still confused. What is the problem with being a taxi driver for life and expecting a good wage?

Only middle class professionals have "a career" and therefore deserve to have enough money to live on, don't you know.

It's the primary reason we don't need a minimum wage - working in the service industry or any other relatively unskilled work isn't "a career" so it doesn't matter if it only pays 2 bucks an hour, so goes the reasoning because nobody should be expecting to do it for long or make a life out of it.

It's myopic.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#178

Post by raducu »

Steeeve wrote: post #70
maxharris wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/26/technology/driverless-car... This is similar to how the huge army of people stuffing DVDs into envelopes at Netflix is going away. It might be slow, but I don't think there will be tons of people watching DVDs from them in 2030... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/netflix-dvd-business-still-a...

> It's sustainable because we're on the cusp of the autonomous vehicle revolution. We still have drivers on subway trains. When those drivers lose jobs to autonomy, maybe we can think about being on the cusp. Until then, I see it as a fantastic story that can be used to milk VCs for cash. At <$4/hour, it's a better investment to automate a fast food restaurant like McDonald's or Burger King. They pay twice as much fo…

I think Paris subway is driverless (at least some lines I traveled on). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_...

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#179

Post by elmar »

davebryand wrote: post #52

I question the authenticity of the $3.37 number when I see that the paper this article references was published by an organization funded by these bodies: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, BP, ClearPath Foundation, Conoco Phillips, Duke Energy, Electricité de France, EnBW, ENGIE, ENI, Eversource, Exelon Corporation, ExxonMobil, Gas Natural Fenosa, GE, Golden Spread Electric Cooperative, Inc., Iberdrola, IHI Corpo…

This study only confirms the unspoken word for many years. Looks like these ride-sharing services are a race to the bottom, the only ones that are better off are the users.

Re: Uber and Lyft drivers' median hourly wage is just $3.37, report finds

#180

Post by timcederman »

lsc wrote: post #91
jrs95 wrote: post #57

As a former pizza delivery guy, this seems odd to me. Before expenses, I’d make between 12 and 20 an hour depending on the night. The car I drove then had a KBB value of less than $3000 and it would have been eligible to use as an Uber. I just don’t see how you could possibly have such high levels of expenses unless you were paying like $600 a month for your car.

As a passenger, I'm very often in $40K+ vehicles. Even on a 60 month loan, that'd be over your $600 number just on car payments.

In 200+ rides, I don't think I've ever once been in a $40k+ Uber vehicle unless I've used Uber Select.
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