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YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

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Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#211

Post by throwaway9837 »

The phrase "historically underrepresented groups" in the US hides the truth that:

historically underrepresented = minorities - Asian-Americans + white women

Imagine if a policy were instituted that benefited minorities, then someone proposed that it should be tweaked so that it didn't help Asian-Americans so much and helped white women instead. They'd be laughed out of the room.

Engineering is one of the few fields Asians in the US have been able to do well in. Consider law, where Asian-Americans make 10% of graduates at top-30 schools but only 6% of federal law clerks and 4% of state law clerks; by comparison, the numbers for white Americans are 58% graduating and then 82% and 80% becoming law clerks. [1]

And now policies like this are in vogue--removing one of the last reliable paths to the middle class for immigrants and the children of immigrants.

The phrase "historically underrepresented" should be a red flag. It neglects context and is virtually a euphemism for discrimination against Asian Americans and for (and it feels so bizarre to be typing this) white women.

[1]: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/07/31/538299755...

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#212

Post by stale2002 »

stcredzero wrote: post #143
wqnt wrote: post #101

I remember back in college when I applied for a job in a multi-national company, I didn't get a math screening quiz that applicants from outside of United States had to take. The quiz was pretty easy middle school math that would take 15 minutes to complete. It turns out that the reason is that screening for basic math competency could be discrimination, because it reduces the chance of hiring for minorities who do l…

It turns out that the reason is that screening for basic math competency could be discrimination, because it reduces the chance of hiring for minorities who do less well at math testing. If it genuinely screens for basic math, then there's nothing racist about it. artificially discriminate in the opposite direction and suppress valid criteria that are statistically unfavorable to minorities. Eroding meritocracy is ul…

> If it genuinely screens for basic math, then there's nothing racist about it.

Lets say that Google added a test for its engineers, that screened for writing and communication skills. Think, SAT verbal questions or something. And lets say that it just so happens that women are a lot better at SAT verbal questions than men.

Would you call that meritocrat, to ask vocabulary questions to software engineers, given that they know that men will do much worse on them?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#213

Post by [deleted] »

Toast_25 wrote: post #103

This begs the question, what is Latino and what is white? I was born in a Latin American country to a Latin American mother and a Canadian father, have lived here my entire life but if you saw me you wouldn't even think I spoke Spanish. Likewise, I've made friends in the US who are of Mexican descent and look very much like it but don't speak a lick of Spanish. This has led me to feel not at home in either my country…

[deleted]

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#214

Post by spicymaki »

Const-me wrote: post #174
spicymaki wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is not popular, but honestly how do you stop discrimination against women and others? It is easy to say “stop doing this,” but does that happen?

Blind hiring _might_ work: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/is-blind-hiring-... To ignore gender this should be combined with gender-neutral voice processing for phone interviews, but it’s doable and not that hard.

What if the candidate went to Wellesley or Howard? What happens if the person went to university in Africa or Latin America? What if you puts SWE or NSBE on the resume, or obtained a merit-based UNCF scholarship and mentioned that as an achievement? The blind hiring system would fall flat pretty quickly.

What happens after the person is hired?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#215

Post by cierra »

This sort of discrimination happens at many big companies these days. Having worked at facebook, I have witnessed these policies first hand.

Facebook has explicit policies against hiring (non-latino) white and asian men. Management would occasionally decide that they hired too many people of certain races/ethnicities and tell employees that they are only hiring from other groups until the end of the year.

I'm not sure how they determined race/ethnicity. I'm assuming recruiters had to make guesses based on candidates names and facebook photos. It's weird to imagine recruiters trying to estimate candidates' skin color to determine whether to toss their resume in the trash.

Facebook tried to hide their affirmative action programs and chastised any employee who questioned them. But occasionally, someone from recruiting or management would reveal the existence of their racial profiling. So I'm assuming the discrimination went much further than what was occasionally revealed.

Mark Zuckerburg spent last year touring the country to make photo-ops with "real americans". I'm curious what his new friends would have thought of him if they knew about his support for discriminating against them.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#216

Post by _m8fo »

jotux wrote: post #60
_m8fo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the median salary for those positions?

Registered nurses: 90% women, median $68k Nurse Practitioners: 92% women, median $107k Veterinarians: 83% women, median $88k All data from BLS.

This is good, but is easily explained by the reflected percentages with various doctor specialties. What's the technology equivalent?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#217

Post by spicymaki »

aliston wrote: post #205
spicymaki wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to wrap my head around this. The level of black employees at Google is at 2% and actually dropped since 2016. How fair is it to say from a statistical point of view that if you did not get hired, you lost out to a lesser qualified black person and not someone from a white or asian of equal or more qualifications? I pick on the black statistic specifically because at the end of the day the blow back for th…

You’re correct that the difference is in the margins. But, at the end of the day, is any exclusion based on race acceptable? From my perspective, it’s hypocritical to champion equal opportunity while systematically having a different hiring process for different races, not to mention illegal.

That is not the argument I am making. I am asking the question if there is a super majority of white and asian males being hired at these firms (that is present in the Google stats), is it fair to say on an individual basis that the reason you did not get the job was because you were passed over for someone unqualified in an underrepresented group, or is it because said person just did not get hired for some other reason?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#218

Post by discoursism »

vondur wrote: post #142
wycs wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then company X gets rightfully trounced by a Chinese firm 5 years from now which does not share our ridiculous racial taboos. Some crimes are self policing.

Yes, this is how companies start to decline.

Is it? I'm not aware of any company in the history of the United States that has failed because it tried to increase its workforce's diversity. Would you mind providing an example?

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#219

Post by cjhopman »

protomyth wrote: post #209
spicymaki wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not accurate according to 2016 votes: http://aaldef.org/TheAsianAmericanVote2016-AALDEF.pdf 79% of Asians voted for Clinton.

Out of curiosity, how did they get the cast ballots with the voters race to do their count? Polling, particularly in the last election, was atrocious.

IIRC, exit polling was just fine.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#220

Post by spicymaki »

protomyth wrote: post #209
spicymaki wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not accurate according to 2016 votes: http://aaldef.org/TheAsianAmericanVote2016-AALDEF.pdf 79% of Asians voted for Clinton.

Out of curiosity, how did they get the cast ballots with the voters race to do their count? Polling, particularly in the last election, was atrocious.

How well do you suspect Trump’s anti-immigration and nationalist push play with the Asian community?

Making it difficult for families to immigrate together via family visa and reducing work visas does not play well.

The polling methodology is present in the report I posted.

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