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YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

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Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#71

Post by netheril96 »

vkou wrote: post #41
ghostcluster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a systemic bias that men choose to study CS and Engineering majors and make up 80% of graduates and the talent pool? Should we discriminate against them for this reason?

It's a systemic bias when you send out two resumes, one with a traditionally african-american name, and one with a traditionally white american name... And have 50% more callbacks for the one with the white name.

And the solution is to fight fire with fire? When Asian students apply to universities, they will have better chances if they change their names and activities in their personal statements to be less typical Asian, because of this affirmative action.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#72

Post by ghostcluster »

woofyman wrote: post #38
colordrops wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. There are many fields that are dominated by women or non-whites, yet there is virtually zero attention paid to those. Why is that?

There’s plenty of interest in getting more men in nursing. http://blog.diversitynursing.com/blog/topic/male-nurse

I'd be surprised to see a major hospital system telling their recruiters to purge female nurse applicants from the hiring queue.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#73

Post by tajen »

woofyman wrote: post #38
colordrops wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. There are many fields that are dominated by women or non-whites, yet there is virtually zero attention paid to those. Why is that?

There’s plenty of interest in getting more men in nursing. http://blog.diversitynursing.com/blog/topic/male-nurse

There’s no attention in getting men teaching. Where 80% teachers are females.

And we still wonder why boys ragequit school at unprecedented levels: There’s only 1 man left for 2 women at university now. And it keeps deflating. Could it be too much effort placed on getting women to succeed, and too much misandry from teachers? and men defending their side of equality systematically being accused of masculinism? No, men can’t be discriminated against, because discrimination only touches women, by definition.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#74

Post by adamnemecek »

majos wrote: post #53
ignoramceisblis wrote: post #23

Did anyone not see this coming? The goal posts of equal _outcome_ continue to move, from university enrollment, to employment enrollment. And there are some people who want to see it go further. (What societal engineering scheme does this resemble?) With no apparent regard for what it costs. Do you want to live in a world where you are judged by the color of your skin, your gender, your "ethnicity"? Or do you think t…

Sure! Except when left to our own devices to "look beyond the superficial traits of a person", we usually end up hiring people who remind us ourselves. There is a place for consciously paying attention to race, ethnicity, and gender in that case. (Admittedly, the alleged situation in the headline is too far.)

> Except when left to our own devices to "look beyond the superficial traits of a person", we usually end up hiring people who remind us ourselves.

Speak for yourself. Also, like similarity goes beyond skin color. I have more in common with a programmer of any race than with a non-programmer of my own race.

That being said furries are weird.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#75

Post by paul7986 »

vkou wrote: post #41
ghostcluster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a systemic bias that men choose to study CS and Engineering majors and make up 80% of graduates and the talent pool? Should we discriminate against them for this reason?

It's a systemic bias when you send out two resumes, one with a traditionally african-american name, and one with a traditionally white american name... And have 50% more callbacks for the one with the white name.

In govt IT(mid Atlantic region) as a Caucasian I am always a minority amongst my awesome Indian and a Asian (few) male & female peers.

I often wonder why many Caucasian complain about foreigners taking jobs yet those complainers never bothered to learn an in-demand skill. Thus those nice high paying jobs are going to those who are qualified no matter their race, creed or sex.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#76

Post by Caveman_Coder »

vkou wrote: post #41
ghostcluster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a systemic bias that men choose to study CS and Engineering majors and make up 80% of graduates and the talent pool? Should we discriminate against them for this reason?

It's a systemic bias when you send out two resumes, one with a traditionally african-american name, and one with a traditionally white american name... And have 50% more callbacks for the one with the white name.

Its also systemic bias when you won't even interview men...

I have first hand experience with this. As a normal working-class white guy with poor parents and no connections (I worked my way through school), I had a hard time even landing an interview at first. As a social experiment, I changed my name/sex from Joe/male to Joanna/female, kept everything else on my resume the same, and reapplied to all the jobs that didn't want me previously. Every single company that rejected Joe was overjoyed when Joanna applied. In every case I got a email within the week wanting to meet and interview me. It was kind of eye-opening. I didn't follow through as "Joanna" because the sexist hiring policies were enough to put me off working at these companies entirely. I eventually found an employer that wasn't sexist and have been happy with them so far...

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#77

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

Caveman_Coder wrote: post #46

I may have been born as a white male, but I identify as a half black, half hispanic female...should be easy now to find any job I want /s

Garbage comments like yours are what perpetuate the rift between the Asian/White (what I refer to as the "upper-class") super majority in tech and the infinitely smaller minority that are brown people and women in tech. I'm part of the latter group and there is nothing funny about how marginalized we feel around the rest of you.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#78

Post by rmrm »

propman wrote: post #52
belltaco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>NBA is totally underrepresented by non-black Males, let's sue them. False equivalency. How do we encourage short people to grow taller? Or kids to grow up into a tall adult? Coming to tech, it's possible to encourage people to work in STEM who otherwise may feel unwelcome due to various issues, including gender, age, race, workplace attitudes, glass ceilings etc. That includes trying to have role models that kids ma…

NBA players on average are 2 inches shorter than listed height because that includes shoes. IT is 5 foot 9 and potentially shorter. Half of the best players in the league are point guards with heights ranging from 6 feet to 6'3 again with shoes. Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Lillard, Chris Paul, Westbrook all fall under this. Average American Height is 5'10. 7 foot tall players have mostly struggled last 5 years so you…

the median height of NBA players has gone from 6'3" to 6'5" to 6'7". The growth in median height of NBA players has outpaced growth in US population median height over the same period.

Yes, its very much a natural advantage to all things being equal, be tall to play basketball. Source: Am tall guy.

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#79

Post by fzeroracer »

ignoramceisblis wrote: post #23

Did anyone not see this coming? The goal posts of equal _outcome_ continue to move, from university enrollment, to employment enrollment. And there are some people who want to see it go further. (What societal engineering scheme does this resemble?) With no apparent regard for what it costs. Do you want to live in a world where you are judged by the color of your skin, your gender, your "ethnicity"? Or do you think t…

We already do live in that world.

If you 'whiten up' your resume, you're more likely to get callbacks. Even if the company indicates that they're pro-diversity or equal-opportunity [1]. Employees with black-sounding names are in general less likely to receive callbacks even when accounting for economic status and skill level [2]. Depending on your name, you will be perceived as being more violent or lesser in status [3]. For minorities, this sort of thing is what they already and commonly experience.

So while we can claim that diversity hiring and so forth has swung too far in the opposite direction, studies and research in general has shown this to not be the case. I'm skeptical of any lawsuits like this brought against Google and while I don't doubt there are instances of terrible hiring managers going too far I imagine people will use this lawsuit as vindication for why they weren't hired.

[1] http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening%20MS%...

[2] http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

[3] https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/5494/black-sound...

Re: YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit Says

#80

Post by striking »

nine_k wrote: post #11
mabbo wrote: post #5

It sounds as though some recruiting leader was told to hit their goals for minority hiring percentages but wasn't given much oversight in how they did it. This sort of thing is often the result of such mismanagement.

Aren't the goals like that a mismanagement, to begin? Either state officially, like "we do racial profiling of candidates", if you in fact do, or, well, don't if you don't.

You can try to invite a wider audience to apply. Many firms just hire based on a short list of posh colleges and thus inherit whatever racial statistics apply to them. But it's possible to look for candidates of all kinds, to expand internship programs, to go to job fairs at inner-city colleges, and so on.

That really only applies to junior personnel, though. I'm not sure what you would do for hiring more experienced people.

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