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The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

forbes.com

31–40 of 162 posts

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

Cellebrite is a Japanese company, a subsidiary of Japan Sun Corporation.

None of the executive team is Japanese (the CEO is Israeli), and most of the positions they are hiring for are located in Israel...

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#32
post #29
post #23

How is chain of custody maintained if the process is a secret? Couldn't a person argue that the data obtained was planted?

They'll probably drop the case if the defense points this out (seriously, look at Stingrays).

But not so much for breathalyzers...

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll probably drop the case if the defense points this out (seriously, look at Stingrays).

But not so much for breathalyzers...

Breathalyzers will tell you what's up right on the spot, unless you've come across some that require the cops to collect a jar of your breath for processing at some remote discrete location?

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not so much for breathalyzers...

Breathalyzers will tell you what's up right on the spot, unless you've come across some that require the cops to collect a jar of your breath for processing at some remote discrete location?

Breathalyzers are easily tampered with by police to provide false readings. One case of this in New Jersey could have potentially thrown out 20,000 DWI cases. But breathalyzer results in cases today are not thrown out after pointing this out.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#35
https://xkcd.com/538

All I want is my every day encryption to be a big enough pain in the butt to crack that the feds can't break it without spending a medium amount of money.

===Edit HN: Apologies this was lost in my subtlety, but consider the game theory aspects. Your best bet is to _just enough_ of a pain in the butt it's difficult to reach you, but you certainly don't want to be singled out on a national stage either. Maybe I'm the only one that considers this angle?

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#36
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. You cannot just clone the data and run passcodes against it, because the data is not encrypted by your passcode. Instead, each file on iOS 11 is encrypted with a different AES 256-bit key, and cracking even one 256-bit key through exhaustive search is thought to be out of reach of humankind ( https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/6141/amount-of-... ). The file keys are wrapped by, among other…

or prying open the Secure Enclave to obtain the Unique ID People have been cracking secure coprocessors of the type used in payment cards, TPMs, and the like for a long time, dare I say even those which were designed to a higher level of security than Apple's. The fact that there is an entire phone attached to it doesn't make much of a difference, but the technology behind this (FIB, microprobing, etc.) has been stea…

> but the technology behind this (FIB, microprobing, etc.) has been steadily dropping in price

Isn't it more of a cat and mouse? The defences also drop in price and increase in availability?

As usual, old tech is becomes vulnerable. Hopefully most people will get the chance to upgrade to the latest and greatest before attacks get too easy and destroy the old device.

I wonder what Chris Tarnovsky is up to these days...

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#37
post #27
post #22

Why didn't Forbes send them an iPhone X running iOS 11 to hack, to find out if it's true or not?

I imagine Cellebrite is very picky about who gets to be there customer. Wouldn't want someone sending a trojan device that reveals their secrets.

Go to Apple store with reporter. Buy phone. Have reporter take selfie and set passcode. Take phone, unlock, show reporter selfie.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#38
post #9

I'm too lazy to find a link for it, but last time I read about Cellebrite, they were cloning the data and simply trying unlock codes in sequence until one worked. They could restore the cloned data before each try, or possibly do it on custom hardware or an emulator, and start with a fresh copy each time, so they never triggered "erase after 10 failures". It's a pretty straightforward approach, but it doesn't scale w…

This is not true. You cannot just clone the data and run passcodes against it, because the data is not encrypted by your passcode. Instead, each file on iOS 11 is encrypted with a different AES 256-bit key, and cracking even one 256-bit key through exhaustive search is thought to be out of reach of humankind ( https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/6141/amount-of-... ). The file keys are wrapped by, among other…

>In the end, the only options are: bruteforcing passcodes on the original device while attempting to trick the device into allowing more than 10 failures, or prying open the Secure Enclave to obtain the Unique ID — both options a lot more complicated than just cloning the data and trying passcodes on it.

If I'm understanding correctly, obtaining the unique ID would simply mean the strength of the AES key becomes the point of failure? (So a strong password means FBI doesn't get in)

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breathalyzers will tell you what's up right on the spot, unless you've come across some that require the cops to collect a jar of your breath for processing at some remote discrete location?

Breathalyzers are easily tampered with by police to provide false readings. One case of this in New Jersey could have potentially thrown out 20,000 DWI cases. But breathalyzer results in cases today are not thrown out after pointing this out.

> after pointing this out.

What would you say, exactly?

If you said:

"your honor, breathalyzers can be tampered with to provide false readings"

It seems quite easy for anyone to respond with "how so?". Do you refer to "this one time in New Jersey"?

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cellebrite is a Japanese company, a subsidiary of Japan Sun Corporation.

None of the executive team is Japanese (the CEO is Israeli), and most of the positions they are hiring for are located in Israel...

Ok then. I guess Apple's a Chinese company or an Irish Company or a Singaporean company because they have subsidiaries--each with a local CEO--in each of those countries:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/business/apple...

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