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The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

forbes.com

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Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#21

Post by julianj »

gruez wrote: post #18
julianj wrote: post #13

I wish there was a kind of "dead man switch" app that would wipe a device if it is not unlocked for x days or met some other kind of personalized criteria.

I think that's how some HSMs work to guard against tampering. The keys are stored on volatile memory, and there's a internal battery/capacitor. You can unplug it, but its tamper intrusion mechanisms will still be active because of the internal battery. If you trip the tamper detection mechanisms, the keys get wiped. If the battery runs out, the key gets wiped. So if you're relocating the HSM, you have x days to replu…

I agree, but based on some people's risk profile, the option would be nice.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#24

Post by gruez »

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #20
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he got the the idea right. Yes, you need the secret key burned into the CPU to decrypt anything, and yes, you can't easily extract the keys. but his claim is that by fully restoring the flash storage (presumably where the retry counter is stored), it's possible to bypass the "erase data after 10 failed attempts" policy by constantly resetting the counter back to its original state. It might take a while (you…

That doesn’t work as well because the counter is kept in the Secure Enclave so it’s not part of the flash contents. Also the exponential delay in attempts is enforced by the enclave. Previous iOS versions used to have some small window where you could race and power off after trying a passcode but before the enclave had incremented the counter, but that bug was fixed long ago. Maybe there are others unknown bugs of s…

>That doesn’t work as well because the counter is kept in the Secure Enclave so it’s not part of the flash contents

I skimmed the secure enclave documentation at https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf (page 5, 14, 15), and I can't find anything to confirm that.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#25

Post by [deleted] »

IBM wrote: post #7
eridius wrote: post #2

Bruce Schneier says¹: > There's also a credible rumor that Cellebrite's mechanisms only defeat the mechanism that limits the number of password attempts. It does not allow engineers to move the encrypted data off the phone and run an offline password cracker. If this is true, then strong passwords are still secure. ¹ https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/02/cellebrite_un...

>The story I hear is that Cellebrite hires ex-Apple engineers and moves them to countries where Apple can't prosecute them under the DMCA or its equivalents. Crazy if true. Doesn't this also create a weird incentive problem where the FBI (or any other law enforcement agency) who would normally be tasked with helping Apple with this doesn't actually want to?

[deleted]

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#26

Post by guelo »

IBM wrote: post #7
eridius wrote: post #2

Bruce Schneier says¹: > There's also a credible rumor that Cellebrite's mechanisms only defeat the mechanism that limits the number of password attempts. It does not allow engineers to move the encrypted data off the phone and run an offline password cracker. If this is true, then strong passwords are still secure. ¹ https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/02/cellebrite_un...

>The story I hear is that Cellebrite hires ex-Apple engineers and moves them to countries where Apple can't prosecute them under the DMCA or its equivalents. Crazy if true. Doesn't this also create a weird incentive problem where the FBI (or any other law enforcement agency) who would normally be tasked with helping Apple with this doesn't actually want to?

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#28

Post by mcphage »

guelo wrote: post #27
mcphage wrote: post #22

Why didn't Forbes send them an iPhone X running iOS 11 to hack, to find out if it's true or not?

I imagine Cellebrite is very picky about who gets to be there customer. Wouldn't want someone sending a trojan device that reveals their secrets.

I would think Forbes Magazine would be a great customer for them.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#30

Post by Bitcoin_McPonzi »

guelo wrote: post #26
IBM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The story I hear is that Cellebrite hires ex-Apple engineers and moves them to countries where Apple can't prosecute them under the DMCA or its equivalents. Crazy if true. Doesn't this also create a weird incentive problem where the FBI (or any other law enforcement agency) who would normally be tasked with helping Apple with this doesn't actually want to?

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

Cellebrite is a Japanese company, a subsidiary of Japan Sun Corporation.
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