China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power • Hacker News Board

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#221

Post by vfulco » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

yasp wrote: post #10

eddieplan9 wrote: post #9

Many sites hosted outside of China that Chinese expats frequent (like http://mitbbs.com ) have also been flooded with pro-amendment messages. Google Translate of the site: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&...

Related: How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument (PDF) >The Chinese government has long been suspected of hiring as many as 2,000,000 people to surreptitiously insert huge numbers of pseudonymous and other deceptive writings into the stream of real social media posts, as if they were the genuine opinions of ordinary people. Many academics, and most jour…

I have always assumed as much. Like the chaff that defensive systems on a fighter plane has. Shoot out a bunch of garbage to confuse the highly targeted offensive action.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#222

Post by vfulco » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:27 AM UTC

phyller wrote: post #48

cornholio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

I'm an American, I've had many close Chinese friends. What follows is completely anecdotal, but I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my mind around it, for what it is worth. Our cultures are incredibly different. At the same time our cultures are both unusually strong. And for some reason, part of American culture seems to be assuming everyone in the world is just like us, just in different circumstances. This is…

While I appreciate your perspective, and I am not disagreeing, I recently took a survey amount young SH professionals asking about their life paths. Should they do what others (defined broadly) wish them to do for work and/or life or should they seek out what makes them happy and they are skilled and interested in? Overwhelmingly for the latter which surprised me. The educated younger generation is skewed more towards Western ideals I believe. You can't have the extreme western materialism without getting the personal aspirations not to be controlled.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#223

Post by vfulco » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:32 AM UTC

phyller wrote: post #172

martimarkov wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if this is true and the majority of Chinese people don’t have freedom as a basic value then there is no reason to opress it. If they truly believed in the values and ideas you expressed there is no reason to opress free speech or am I missing something? (Genuine question)

This is a good question. Perhaps it is as simple as this is the leadership culture in China. Their great leaders are firm, are tough, do not tolerate dissent. And maybe people respect them for it. "I don't know" is the real answer, but here is my guess. My Chinese friends are incredibly social, incredibly loyal (to each other), trustworthy (to each other) to a fault. They may be ready to submit to an irresistible pow…

You raise an incredibly interesting point here. "The biggest threat is their own people." Scams are so prevalent here I often think that what looks like 1984 style policies and procedures is seen in their eyes as a form of protection. To the outside world it is draconian. To them they are trying to protect from internal marauders.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#224

Post by woodandsteel » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 1:32 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #122

antichronology wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?

Political stability encourages growth [1]. The form of government seems largely irrelevant [2]. China is moving from a stable if novel mode (small-group democratic dictatorship) to an unstable mode (single-leader dictatorship). [1] https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/4553024/alesina_... [2] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.7.3.51

>Political stability encourages growth

Absolutely. That is why the US, thanks to having a multi-party democracy, never got anywhere with the industrial revolution. And that is why Putin's Russia is leading the world in technological innovation and economic growth.

Of course, if when you say "political stability" you mean the absence of things like civil wars and coups, well yes, that really helps economic growth. But I don't think Xi is making himself dictator-for-life because China is on the verge of that sort of instability.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#225

Post by germainelol » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:10 AM UTC

diego_moita wrote: post #174

natecavanaugh wrote: post #134

My core belief has always been that as long as China has this culture of authoritarian and heavy handed internet control, it will always have a self-imposed limit on their ability to compete. I understand they have a deep rooted value of stability and that they believe they're keeping their society from running off the rails, but if they were to allow their citizens to contribute more to the direction of the governme…

I want to think like that but would like to understand the details before believing in it. Recently, I read "China's Future" by David Shambaugh. He argues along the same lines as you. He claims that the development driven by exports and government investing is exhausted because of growing protectionism, competition from nearby countries and growing inefficiency on government companies. Meanwhile the country still has…

Really agree on the inequality point, especially in the West around Xinjiang. Some of the stories my friends have told me about growing up there were ridiculous.

I think after you travel around China a bit, it's really difficult to see it as a first world country that's at the forefront of innovation.

You can go to a city like Shenzhen and see all these cool products being launched and huge skyscrapers, which is impressive given 30 years ago it was just a fishing village overshadowed by Hong Kong. But then you travel around and see that a lot of China consists of huge cities with shoddy living conditions and very limited opportunities.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#226

Post by balthasar » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

protoplant wrote: post #216

balthasar wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I'm just trying to understand the five year old's argument. "Their economy was mostly oil, they seized assets of oil companies extracting it." Who is "they" in this sentence and how was all this inevitable?

Okay a good page that goes into depth is history of Venezuela oil Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oi... The Chávez administration used high oil prices in the 2000s on his populist policies and to gain support from voters. The social works initiated by Chávez's government relied on oil products, the keystone of the Venezuelan economy, with Chávez's administration suffering from Dutc…

We both can agree that the pdvsa is incredibly corrupt and post Chavez politics have been a shit show. Whether this is a necessary result from nationalization is not an easily answered question but I'm glad you actually voiced an opinion on the issue besides just nationalization is bad. Cheers.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#227

Post by balthasar » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

phyller wrote: post #215

balthasar wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I'm just trying to understand the five year old's argument. "Their economy was mostly oil, they seized assets of oil companies extracting it." Who is "they" in this sentence and how was all this inevitable?

First ad hominem attacks don't help your point. Second, Google can help you out with some of your questions. Third, "they" is Chavez and his government. Chavez was socialist, socialism implies that the government takes over production from capitalists. How was all this inevitable? When a government doesn't like that private companies are making money, and steal their property then replace skilled managers with party…

Yes all socialist governments are doomed to fail. Every leftist thinker has the IQ of a five year old(starting to like this meme). Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#228

Post by protoplant » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:43 AM UTC

balthasar wrote: post #227

phyller wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First ad hominem attacks don't help your point. Second, Google can help you out with some of your questions. Third, "they" is Chavez and his government. Chavez was socialist, socialism implies that the government takes over production from capitalists. How was all this inevitable? When a government doesn't like that private companies are making money, and steal their property then replace skilled managers with party…

Yes all socialist governments are doomed to fail. Every leftist thinker has the IQ of a five year old(starting to like this meme). Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation.

The eli5 is just a Reddit forum thing to keep jargon and length down, does not mean you have a 5 year old mind.

A question would be eli5 lambda calculus. Actually if there is an eli5 for that it would be fun to read.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#229

Post by balthasar » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 2:53 AM UTC

alsetmusic wrote: post #214

balthasar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside observers never saw or reported voting manipulation during Chavez's time. Your lie is easily disproved with a bit of research and I encourage readers to do so. I'm not familiar with the Court/Constitutional Committee issues that your raise but I assume they are post Chavez.

> Your lie is easily disproved with a bit of research and I encourage readers to do so. When you call someone a liar, the onus is on you to do the research and present your case for others. Asking everyone else to do the research doesn’t cut it. Your position should include citations that provide evidence that what you say is correct. What you have achieved here is essentially name-calling.

An unsubstantiated claim doesn't require a well researched counter. The suggestion to do research is just that a suggestion. I find that when dealing with posts written by people who are uninformed or have the intention of misinformation that it is important to point out that the issue is contested. If someone is lying then a bit of research will prove that and we can all be in agreement. If the subject isn't worth bothering with then my accusation surely can't be bothered with either.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#230

Post by sedachv » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 3:15 AM UTC

J5892 wrote: post #217

sedachv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source: worked for an online payday lender. There are a lot of commercial APIs from "Consumer Reporting Agencies," providing public information beyond credit rating agencies, that are in use to determine lending decisions. The Wikipedia article on the FCRA[1] has a brief list of these firms and a summary of the laws around data collection and dissemination. IMO the United States needs to both step up enforcement of e…

I assume, in the case of a payday lender, that that data was mostly used to determine how gullible a potential customer is, and how easy it will be to fuck them over entirely.

Pretty much. One of the metrics optimized for was profitability of repeat business. You want that inflection point where you get as much as possible from the customer while still leaving them solvent and up to date on payments. This is where having all that data was essential - you can build models and determine what the inflection point would be, in terms of payment terms for a specific customer. Traditional payday lenders do not have this data - they would just try to impose the biggest APR and penalties on a customer and rely on collections to recover as much of the "fictitious" (fictitious in that their business plan presupposes they will not be able to collect the majority of it) debt as they could. Collections is expensive and eats into your margins.