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China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

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Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#61

Post by snerbles »

davesque wrote: post #54
phyller wrote: post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

At this rate, it seems reasonable to assume they'd use a kill vehicle to take the satellites out.

You'd see wide-spread jamming well before then.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#62

Post by jakecrouch »

This is why the US should not worry about China as a long-term economic threat - authoritarianism has never worked. The Soviet Union, 1930s Germany and Italy, all collapsed. I think the Chinese realize this and are pessemistic about their own future. The Constitution was designed to make the US Government as weak as possible, because a strong government ultimately turns on its people.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#63

Post by jerf »

echevil wrote: post #27
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #15

I could go downtown tonight, stand on the street corner, and shout "F--- the president!" at the top of my lungs. What would happen? I might get dirty looks. I might get some people shaking my hand. And I might - might - get an angry tweet from the president. I probably would not get either arrested or beaten up. (And this isn't a political statement. I could have done the same under the previous president, with the s…

I think it's more just because of them afraid of "losing face" like almost all Chinese people do. That's quite deep in Chinese culture. Even the most powerful emperors in Chinese history (who would have nothing to be afraid of) still executes those who talked ill of them

It's not just China. Being able to publicly yell "Fuck the $RULER" is an anomaly in human history, not the norm.

In the US, the current party in power is always on the verge of instituting totalitarianism. My plan is to start worrying about it when people face systematic government consequences for actually mouthing off about the ruling party. Right now, to a first approximation, nobody has in a long time. Any examples that anxious partisans will rush to contradict me will simply further demonstrate my point with how minor and unsystematic they are in the US.

(If anything gets you in trouble in 2018, it's not mouthing off about the ruling party, it's pissing off the social media mob. That may yet be something we have to culturally reckon with, but it remains the case that it's not the government doing it.)

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#64

Post by duncan_bayne »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #15

I could go downtown tonight, stand on the street corner, and shout "F--- the president!" at the top of my lungs. What would happen? I might get dirty looks. I might get some people shaking my hand. And I might - might - get an angry tweet from the president. I probably would not get either arrested or beaten up. (And this isn't a political statement. I could have done the same under the previous president, with the s…

From the perspective of a non-American it seems this is becoming less true over time; I see things like "Free Speech zones", and violence from Antifa and the alt-right. Not State actors in some cases, but proxies for them.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#65

Post by analyst74 »

gigatexal wrote: post #17

I hope that in my lifetime we see a revolution in China that overthrows the current authoritarian state and things like the great firewall and quasi-private/state run agencies go the way of the dodo bird. Unfortunately I don't see big American companies doing anything but continuing to court China and their growing class of wealthy consumers.

yeah, let's have an revolution, or better, let's have another world war over ideology, since it went so well last time.

as much as it pains me to see China regressing on the freedom front, I hope we will sort things out in a less violent manner.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#66

Post by backspin »

phyller wrote: post #48
cornholio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should asume "pro-China" means against dictatorship and presidents for life, right? There is no people or culture on Earth that stands to gain from oligarchy.

I'm an American, I've had many close Chinese friends. What follows is completely anecdotal, but I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my mind around it, for what it is worth. Our cultures are incredibly different. At the same time our cultures are both unusually strong. And for some reason, part of American culture seems to be assuming everyone in the world is just like us, just in different circumstances. This is…

This. At least in my family most of my older Chinese relatives prefer order and peace to American democracy, for their income increased dramatically over the past 5 years. But I guess after family income gets to certain threshold, people will start weighting more on freedom.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#67

Post by Abundnce10 »

tonylinn80 wrote: post #42
aphextron wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can you explain which values you're referring to and why you don't agree with them? I can imagine that personal property rights and freedom of speech are not included in that list of disagreeable values.

democracy, to begin with... at least American style of democracy

Why?

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#68

Post by nradov »

davesque wrote: post #54
phyller wrote: post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

At this rate, it seems reasonable to assume they'd use a kill vehicle to take the satellites out.

The Chinese government isn't stupid enough to commit an act of war and open up their own satellites to retaliation. They'll just ban possession of the ground terminals like they ban firearms, drugs, "subversive" literature, etc. It won't be completely effective but will prevent most people in China from having unfettered satellite Internet access.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#69

Post by jjaredsimpson »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #41
phyller wrote: post #28

It's amazing to me how China is so effectively creating a 1984-type situation without much stir among the rest of the world. These chat programs are super important for everyday life in China. The same company that provides chatting also provides your ability to pay for everything, and a credit score that determines what you can buy, how much you pay, and more. So if you say something you shouldn't, this could very e…

What scares me more is the cheerleading and defense of this in the West, and the way this is voluntarily happening here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J24C0TI This is a telescreen.

Anonymity paired with speech is a new modern invention which didn't always exist. I don't this it is necessarily true that that kinds of speech is always for the ultimate good.

I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. It just seems like the modern version of sitting around a fire face to face and not being an asshole.

Re: China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jinping consolidates power

#70

Post by [deleted] »

jerf wrote: post #63
echevil wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more just because of them afraid of "losing face" like almost all Chinese people do. That's quite deep in Chinese culture. Even the most powerful emperors in Chinese history (who would have nothing to be afraid of) still executes those who talked ill of them

It's not just China. Being able to publicly yell "Fuck the $RULER" is an anomaly in human history, not the norm. In the US, the current party in power is always on the verge of instituting totalitarianism. My plan is to start worrying about it when people face systematic government consequences for actually mouthing off about the ruling party. Right now, to a first approximation, nobody has in a long time. Any exampl…

[deleted]
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