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Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

reuters.com

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Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#151

Post by jacquesm »

CalRobert wrote: post #90
TomMarius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd also practically stop economic growth of areas outside large cities and slow down economic growth of the city itself. Many businesses would be ruined (and thus people working on them). Many people would loose their jobs. This is a very backwards approach. Why don't we destroy our cities that have replaced the beautiful nature that used to be there instead of them?

For what it's worth, I'm trying to find a place that is free of cars because, well, they ruin life if you enjoy walking and cycling. So far, places that come to mind are central Ghent and Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sadly the latter allows cars but they're still very few in number). If I were there I would expect to work remote, or start my own gig. I'd shop locally. There are very few places in the world where you can…

There are still plenty of cars in Ghent, except for the very heart of the city. The circulation plan they implemented there works to some extent but it has actually made the situation in the outskirts of the city worse because people that do have to drive now drive longer distances to get to the same place.

There is still inner city parking too (the underground garages) so Ghent is not really free of cars yet.

If you want to live without cars the best place would be a nature reservation or silence zone, there are a few of those in Europe and the few houses that are there are priced quite high as a result but I think they would come closest to your vision.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#152

Post by jacquesm »

agmcleod wrote: post #92
CalRobert wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I'm trying to find a place that is free of cars because, well, they ruin life if you enjoy walking and cycling. So far, places that come to mind are central Ghent and Rothenburg ob der Tauber (sadly the latter allows cars but they're still very few in number). If I were there I would expect to work remote, or start my own gig. I'd shop locally. There are very few places in the world where you can…

In many cases I see cycling ruin life if you enjoy driving or walking ;). I do find places that i've seen be bike friendly in Europe do a much better job at this. But cyclists in Toronto can be pretty awful. Likewise can pedestrians and cars. Whichever way I travel, the other two are annoying me or causing me grief somehow.

Cycling only really works when it is classed as a different kind of traffic from pedestrians and cars. If you lump the cyclists in with the pedestrians it will make the sidewalks dangerous and if you put them on the roads they get killed by drivers. Cycling needs separate infrastructure to be a real contender.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#153

Post by kbart »

madez wrote: post #75
neverminder wrote: post #68

Eastern Europe will be flooded with those cars now. http://www.dw.com/en/germanys-dirty-diesel-cars-en-route-for...

The EU comission threatened to fine Germany for the air pollution caused by these cars. I expect they'd treat other EU countries the same.

I don't see how that will work in real world. In most Eastern Europe average car is like 15 years old diesel, so these (cheap) semi-new diesels that will go there from Germany will actually be an upgrade.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#154

Post by jacquesm »

tjansen wrote: post #149
IshKebab wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the pedestrians who get killed by cars were somehow "forgetting to control it"? That makes zero sense.

Why? Excluding children, most pedestrians who get killed by cars didn't pay attention while crossing the street. That's the no 1 cause for adults. The other one is walking on streets without sidewalks. (sorry, ony have stats in German: https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Praesentation11-13_192487.pdf )

Where do you get these stats? Not that I'm doubting your numbers but I'd love to see an article or dataset about this.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#155

Post by davrosthedalek »

estel wrote: post #5
dingo_bat wrote: post #3

Is this backed by real science? I was under the impression that modern diesels were highly efficient and quite within the acceptable emission standards.

I think cities are only interested in banning older diesels that don't meet Euro-5 or Euro-6.

Most cities in Germany are not interested banning them in the first place. They already have the problem that people don't go shopping in the cities anymore, with amazon and co. making it so easy to shop from home. So making it harder to get into the city is not what they want.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#156

Post by petecox »

72deluxe wrote: post #65
jonasvp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] Cars are a net negative for societies (see e.g. https://tu-dresden.de/bu/verkehr/ivs/voeko/ressourcen/dateie... ). Just imagine having most (80%+) of goods transported by cargo bike: lots of (local!) employment, lots of new technology needed, etc.

Like sofas, armchairs, refrigerators, washing machines, dishwashers, flat-screen TVs and oak beds? Great idea, but how would you feasibly transport them? The deliveroo boxes are going to have to increase in size...

Ask your great great grandparents - horses! In the 19th century, cemeteries had railway stations for transporting the dead by steam train.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#157

Post by learnstats2 »

jacquesm wrote: post #53
TheLostOne wrote: post #45

As a German who never owned a car (have driver license 30+ years) and never will, hurray! Next: Petrol cars please. Costs for cities would decrease a lot [1], room for bicycles would increase, noise would drop to a level which can't believed, ambulances would be adjusted to walking persons instead of loud cars with their stereos on and air would be wonderful. [1] https://www.amazon.de/High-Cost-Free-Parking/dp/193236…

And the German economy would crash, but never mind that. Before you ban all petrol cars you will first need something that can replace them because not everybody is in a position to use public transport both due to capacity, speed and door-to-door elements.

Except that cities and towns which have ban vehicles for general use can deal with exceptions, and have dealt with this problem.

Some highly economically productive cities in Europe have similar bans on private vehicles in the centre, and function perfectly well.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#158

Post by foobarian »

jacquesm wrote: post #143
ams6110 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing like the cars from the '70s or earlier. Every once in a while driving, I'll pass a restored car from the 60s or 70s going the other way, and can smell the exhaust for about a mile. And that's one car.

Nothing like a two-stroke moped. Those are the worst by far.

That reminds me of the Wartburg [1]. Our neighbor had one where I grew up, and us kids used to call it the "Atom bomb" due to the mushroom cloud of blue smoke it generated when it started up or pulled in.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartburg_353

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#159

Post by jacquesm »

foobarian wrote: post #158
jacquesm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing like a two-stroke moped. Those are the worst by far.

That reminds me of the Wartburg [1]. Our neighbor had one where I grew up, and us kids used to call it the "Atom bomb" due to the mushroom cloud of blue smoke it generated when it started up or pulled in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wartburg_353

Between those, the Trabants and the Serenas a morning in the former Eastblock would always look like fog. Heavy, worn out diesel engines of trucks and buses didn't help either.

The situation is now much better than when I lived there but even so Poland still has a huge smog problem.

Re: Diesel cars can be banned from German cities, court rules

#160

Post by learnstats2 »

tjansen wrote: post #149
IshKebab wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the pedestrians who get killed by cars were somehow "forgetting to control it"? That makes zero sense.

Why? Excluding children, most pedestrians who get killed by cars didn't pay attention while crossing the street. That's the no 1 cause for adults. The other one is walking on streets without sidewalks. (sorry, ony have stats in German: https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Praesentation11-13_192487.pdf )

OK but more people are killed by cars on the sidewalk than are killed by bicycles total.

Evidence: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article196605814.ht...

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