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How poverty changes your mindset

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Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#241

Post by jopsen »

povertyworld wrote: post #122
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

I usually just skim HN for links, but I this article and had to make an account. I've been making about 15k a year about the last five years. I live in a major metropolitan area. The section I live in is finally getting hit hard and fast with gentrification, and it's terrifying. Right now I can ride a bike to work, but if I'm forced to move somewhere that I have to pay to commute, my job won't even make financial sen…

Ignore the "on paper requirements".

(assuming you haven't already been doing that)

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#242

Post by psyc »

bojackstorkman wrote: post #117
haZard_OS wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without going into too much detail: I am exactly one semester away from a degree in the natural sciences but can no longer afford to attend classes - I am a single father with 3 children (two of which live with me) and I pay child support every month to my ex-wife who makes ~$80K per annum. I played her way through graduate school but she left and we divorced very soon after she finished school. I am almost 40 years…

I have also lost access to education because of resources multiple times. I cannot stress how much this has impacted me materially and in terms of morale, both in the short and long term. The amount of inertia that the self-perpetuating condition, as you aptly put it, is staggering to many that aren't actively experiencing it. It is difficult to know what aspects of being poor are seen as urgent --or even actionable…

I dropped out of college because I had to work 30 hours a week minimum to afford it. There just wasn't enough time. All I did was work, school, and homework. I was staying up until 4am doing homework, and then nodding off at the wheel all the way to school a few hours later. Something had to give. Giving up the job was a non-starter. There wasn't anything else to give up. So I gave up school. And that marked the beginning of my battle with depression. I'd grown up quite poor, but I'd never been depressed about it. Because the future I saw was me going to college and becoming successful. Once off that path, a real, deep existential horror that I'd never felt before set in.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#243

Post by BuckRogers »

haZard_OS wrote: post #97
bojackstorkman wrote: post #30

I love how when this comes up, it's people either saying "Here was my experience when I was poor in the past." or "Here is what I think about economics or the wording of this article." Don't get me wrong, I know what website I'm on. But in all seriousness, is there room for currently poor people in this discussion?

Without going into too much detail: I am exactly one semester away from a degree in the natural sciences but can no longer afford to attend classes - I am a single father with 3 children (two of which live with me) and I pay child support every month to my ex-wife who makes ~$80K per annum. I played her way through graduate school but she left and we divorced very soon after she finished school. I am almost 40 years…

Kids are the easiest, fastest (9 month) way to guarantee a life of poverty. Make them get jobs if they're 12 or older. I started working at 12 (paperboy) and never stopped 25+ years later!

My advice is to stop school, work a bit, save up, then finish off that last semester class by class while working.

I worked 30 hours a week while going to college, not because I had a wife or kids, but because no one was helping me and I had to pay rent/bills on top of the loans.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#244

Post by BuckRogers »

psyc wrote: post #242
bojackstorkman wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have also lost access to education because of resources multiple times. I cannot stress how much this has impacted me materially and in terms of morale, both in the short and long term. The amount of inertia that the self-perpetuating condition, as you aptly put it, is staggering to many that aren't actively experiencing it. It is difficult to know what aspects of being poor are seen as urgent --or even actionable…

I dropped out of college because I had to work 30 hours a week minimum to afford it. There just wasn't enough time. All I did was work, school, and homework. I was staying up until 4am doing homework, and then nodding off at the wheel all the way to school a few hours later. Something had to give. Giving up the job was a non-starter. There wasn't anything else to give up. So I gave up school. And that marked the begi…

That's exactly what I did, funny we posted at the same time. I worked 30 hours a week with fulltime school too. I was able to pull through it though and graduated. Took me 6 years instead of 4 total, but looking back, I would've purposefully taken even longer had I known it was actually one of the best times of my life. I had the benefit of starting at a community college though, which saved money, and those 2 years were easier. I also took other classes at other local community colleges to transfer the max into my university as well once I was there.

Yeah, you're right on the time management part for sure. I was the most efficient with my time during that period of my life than I've ever been. Basically work, class, study in library, repeat. It's not that bad, people are capable of more if they choose to. Best time of my life. It doesn't get better for sure. I've worked like a slave since then, with zero intellectual stimulation as I had at school other than what I seek out on sites like HN.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#245

Post by tjr225 »

skookumchuck wrote: post #229
tjr225 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, in the case of most of the people who currently hold our wealth, turns out to be not very much at all. Are you surprised?

Given that about a third of the country would identify themselves as progressives, it's hard to see if they gave of their own free will, there wouldn't be plenty of help to the disadvantaged. But I rarely (never?) see any rhetoric in DNC politics about party members donating of their own free will to anything other than the Democratic party.

Agreed on both of your points.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#246

Post by RandomCSGeek »

dizzystar wrote: post #213
kraig911 wrote: post #69

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

I grew up in poverty as well and my reaction to money is the total opposite. I never felt connected to it all. I want to be a good saver, but my understanding of the green stuff is nearly nil. It's just sort of there and I try not to think about it. I think it's just the opposite problem. I simply don't know what to spend money on. I feel like I spend a lot of money, but somehow everyone is in deeper debt than I am.…

During my childhood, my father's most of the income went into repaying loans. Luckily, we had our own house, so we didn't need to worry about getting homeless. But I remember I rarely got to spend money on any kind of "luxury". By luxury, I mean simple stuff like a icecream cone or a baloon.

The effect it had on me is quite wierd. On one hand, I always wish to earn more so as to not have to go through that phase again, while on the other hand, I never care about spending money. Even now that we have more money, I rarely spend on clothes, fancy food, gadgets or whatever that is not necessity. That phase of borderline poverty has made me frugal for life.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#247

Post by tjr225 »

rboyd wrote: post #224
tjr225 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, in the case of most of the people who currently hold our wealth, turns out to be not very much at all. Are you surprised?

"our wealth"?

Some of us disagree very strongly with the premise of capitalism.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#248

Post by mrep »

jopsen wrote: post #226
mrep wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The poor and destitute simply need help. Upvote for the story but "simply need help" is not a policy a government can use to solve the problem. Granted, solving this problem for everyone is nigh impossible but maybe you can give us an example of a policy that would have helped out your individual family to give us some ideas?

When half your country frame it as: makers VS takers. Then "simply need help" would be a significant policy change. Lots of other developed countries have made inroads on poverty. Just look.

> When half your country frame it as: makers VS takers.

I have never heard of that term before. What does that mean?

> Then "simply need help" would be a significant policy change.

Again, governments are based on policies and rules. "simply need help" is way to abstract.

> Lots of other developed countries have made inroads on poverty. Just look.

Which policies and rules used by other governments do you recommend?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#249

Post by psyc »

BuckRogers wrote: post #244
psyc wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dropped out of college because I had to work 30 hours a week minimum to afford it. There just wasn't enough time. All I did was work, school, and homework. I was staying up until 4am doing homework, and then nodding off at the wheel all the way to school a few hours later. Something had to give. Giving up the job was a non-starter. There wasn't anything else to give up. So I gave up school. And that marked the begi…

That's exactly what I did, funny we posted at the same time. I worked 30 hours a week with fulltime school too. I was able to pull through it though and graduated. Took me 6 years instead of 4 total, but looking back, I would've purposefully taken even longer had I known it was actually one of the best times of my life. I had the benefit of starting at a community college though, which saved money, and those 2 years…

I've spent 20 years trying to decide what I could have done differently. Usually I conclude that I should have taken out loans. In my defense, I was 16, knew nothing about loans, thought they were scary, and had nobody to advise me otherwise. My single mother was working full-time to support two other kids, and didn't have the bandwidth to help me with school. Besides, that was back in the days before student loans became the foregone conclusion they are now. It only just now occurred to me that I could have blown off the homework, and graduated with lower grades, but there is no way 16-year-old me would ever have considered not doing homework.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#250

Post by ThrustVectoring »

runako wrote: post #159
linkmotif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s necessarily a conflict between having empathy for people unconditionally while still asking questions like: if times were at one point good or OK but you’ve fallen into hard times now, why did you not have savings? People ask these questions because being miserly to save is hard and unpleasant, and then when others seemingly haven’t saved, it’s emotionally difficult helping them. I see people us…

All of this modulo American healthcare means a lot of people who follow this script still end up with nothing. This is especially the case for entry-level jobs and other careers that are more available to the newly arrived. If you work in a median-income job and are miserly for a long time and save up a year's income, you will have around $60k in the bank. Since you don't have a pension, materially all of this will b…

Your retirement savings have creditor protections - if you have hospital bills you cannot pay, you can go through bankruptcy or another non-payment strategy with your retirement savings largely intact.

It sucks ruining your credit with a bankruptcy event, but it beats out draining your retirement plans.

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