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Obesity: Drink till you drop

economist.com

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Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#71

Post by Mpdreamz »

wwortiz wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cultural thing. As a European in North America you find lots of those things where the 'right' thing to do is less than obvious, and restaurant etiquette is one of those. Americans visiting Europe would find themselves in a similar situation if they asked for a doggie bag. Most places wouldn't even be prepared to handle such a request. But then again, the portions are so much smaller that a request of that nat…

Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners? I'm genuinely curious, but perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. Also I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home, although it has been a very long time since I've heard the term doggy bag and am more accustomed…

It is uncommon here in the netherlands. My mom had a gastric bypass when i was very little but even at the age of 7 to 12 i alway felt emberessed when my mom asked for a doggy bag. Even our european sizes were way too much for her. Here it is/was almost concidered a sign of being poor and having no manners. I now think its super cool off her to go against the social stigma and is able to enjoy a restaurant meal for 2 to 3 days.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#72

Post by tommizzle »

count wrote: post #56
WilliamLP wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're preaching to the choir here. What you're not going to be able to demonstrate is that, in laboratory controlled conditions where literally every calorie is counted by a scientist, and all variables are taken into account (e.g. hyrdation levels) that one kind of calorie leads to a "metabolic advantage" over another and lead to more or less fat loss or gain given adequate protein . This would be a kind of holy gr…

This covers some of that very well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Cliff notes?

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#73

Post by roel_v »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #63

I was wondering if it altered the quality of calories taken in. The article mentioned that it wasn't just dropping calories from drinks, since they were counted as part of the allocated amount. On the other hand, if people were eating (for instance) more proteins in place of the simple sugars of fizzy drinks, they would drastically alter how their body was interacting with those 1800 calories. I was disappointed by t…

"...absolutely meaningless in measuring anything."

This is not true, not for calories nor for lines of code. Both are not sufficient measures when used on their own, and both need context to be interpreted in, but outright dismissing any measurement of them is just as wrong as blindly relying on them.

Apart from this, this study was done by professional nutritional researchers - the article may have dumbed down their word a bit but I'd be hard-pressed to believe that they didn't account for things like that.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#74

Post by davidw »

pfedor wrote: post #70
davidw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, my wife and I always have to remember to split an entree at US restaurants. Once we split an appetizer, and, not having been that hungry in the first place, were basically good for the evening. The portions there really are huge.

Well I can name one place where portions are exactly the right size and it's McDonald's. E.g., cheeseburger plus the Caesar salad w/o chicken, plus french fries plus two apple pies plus a coke is about half the size of a meal in a regular restaurant. Which of course doesn't stop people like my girlfriend from bashing McDonald's as non-healthy and preferring places where "gourmet" burgers range from 1/3 to 1lb, i.e.,…

I don't think McDonalds is as bad as some people make it out to be, but it's not all that great either. You're not getting high quality food there, and in terms of a "dining experience", the ambiance leaves something to be desired:-)

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#75

Post by kahawe »

evanchen wrote: post #34

The problem with "solutions" like this is that they don't really fix the problem where it lies. Weight gain is attributed to caloric surplus, there's no two ways about it. Drinking water before a meal will help you feel a little fuller and ultimately, eat less. People ignorant to nutrition will begin to use this as a free pass to eating even more poorly. If you really take a step back and look at this, what they are…

On the upside if you are more conscious about your diet and go for proteins (to feel full longer), fresh stuff and less carbs then lots of water are practically mandatory to prevent gout. So the article's point of drinking lots of clean water being good for you is pretty spot on IMHO - regardless of dodgy science or faulty methods.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#76

Post by patrickk »

wwortiz wrote: post #30
jacquesm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cultural thing. As a European in North America you find lots of those things where the 'right' thing to do is less than obvious, and restaurant etiquette is one of those. Americans visiting Europe would find themselves in a similar situation if they asked for a doggie bag. Most places wouldn't even be prepared to handle such a request. But then again, the portions are so much smaller that a request of that nat…

Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners? I'm genuinely curious, but perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. Also I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home, although it has been a very long time since I've heard the term doggy bag and am more accustomed…

"Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners?"

I did this the other day in my favorite Chinese restaurant. I wasn't hungry enough to eat an entire "Chinese-style Steak" myself, so I split the meal with my brother. Anytime my family has ever asked to get an extra plate it's never been a problem. (Also, there is this tendency to treat Europe as one big country, as if the customs in France are going to be equivalent to customs in, say, Sweden!)

"...I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home,..." Funny story concerning "doggy bags": I worked at a hotel once. There was a wedding on one night, and there was a huge volume of food leftover (regular occurrence, the amount of food wasted in the hotel and restaurant business is eye-opening). One guest caught my attention as I was clearing plates, and said "was there any chance that I could bag up all the leftovers". I said no problem. Turns out he had greyhounds, and was looking to save money by feeding them leftovers from the wedding food. I bagged up all the leftovers and gave them to him. I was happy to do it because it was destined for the bin otherwise. Btw we don't use the expression "doggy bags" over here, but in this case it literally was a case of the food going into a "doggy bag".

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#77

Post by sambe »

Maciek416 wrote: post #3

I'd like to know how much obesity is caused by a structural "finish everything on your plate" problem. By this I mean the tendency of certain folks to finish everything that is served, no matter what their hunger level is. Also, I've heard it said that people who eat from smaller plates will consume fewer calories over time. In the study, the group given water also had their food portions slashed by a substantial amo…

Whilst I haven't done the research to back up such a strong statement, I feel that this form of childhood conditioning is strong & damaging enough to qualify as abusive parenting (semi-forced feeding + impact in later life). Doubling up with sugary rewards (dessert) if they force themselves to eat too much in the first place surely makes it even worse.

Of course, it's not the only factor that leads to obesity, but it's extremely outdated and idiotic practice.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#78

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jules wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it uncommon for European restaurants to bring out another plate/silverware if asked, or just considered bad manners? I'd hate to try :) I've never ever seen anybody do that, except for maybe asking for an extra spoon to share a desert. > Also I'm curious if doggy bags imply the same connotations where you are from, as here they imply simply bringing leftovers home, although it has been a very long time since I'v…

As another European I agree. When we eat in a restaurant with my family its almost always the case that for some people the portions will be too big and for others too small. What we sometimes do is we just pick a dish for each person and each of us eats about 1/n'th of each dish, with the people who are more hungry eating more and the others less. I'm not sure if this would be considered bad manners (not that we'd c…

Just back from holiday in Scotland. We both asked for a doggy bag (for a slice of pizza) and asked for extra crockery+cultery on occassion (different restaurants).

I wouldn't have balked if they'd said no, but as I constantly say to my lad "you don't get if you don't ask" (which may not be true universally, but certainly is with me).

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#79

Post by sambe »

tommizzle wrote: post #33
WilliamLP wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obviously getting your calories from healthy fats such as olive oil and avacados is going to be a lot more beneficial to your weight in the long run than getting your calories from sugary fizzy drinks such as coca-cola. It may be "obvious", but I'm not sure if that's true!

I would say it's pretty common knowledge in the fitness world. I think this quote explains the concept nicely: "The second rule of fat loss is that healthy fat does not make you fat. Excess calories, in particular excess from the wrong calories makes you fat. This is a very hard concept to get across. People still believe that fat makes you fat and will argue without you to the grave while they eat a gallon of low fa…

I don't think it is "common knowledge" - in fact, I think it's almost entirely untrue. Fats in general are calorifically dense, and you will "get fat" by eating a lot of them regardless of if they are "good" or "bad". Good fats may be better for heart disease etc. Some fats are also essential in the diet. Fine. Good vs bad calories is nonsense.

Re: Obesity: Drink till you drop

#80

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Luc wrote: post #69
rdtsc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though I still wouldn't ever do it myself) Why do you think that is? Is it that Europeans see eating out as a signal of luxury and asking to take the rest of the food home somehow diminishes that perception ("oh look they must be poor if they are taking that left-over steak home..." kind of attitude). In other words are Europeans just afraid of looking bad, poor or stingy in front of others in a restaurant and Amer…

> In other words are Europeans just afraid of looking bad, poor or stingy in front of others in a restaurant and Americans just don't care? I don't care what people think, but restaurants that don't do takeaway simply don't have containers to take food home. I've been to 10 restaurants this month, and none did takeaway. Besides, a half-eaten reheated meal doesn't sound very appetizing. The sauce will have congealed o…

I asked for "a doggy bag for this pizza please" and got the response "will foil do?" and it did just fine. We use foil to wrap stuff for the fridge quite regularly if it doesn't fit in a tupperware (reusable rubberised plastic food storage box). Of course if it's soup or whatever you're probably not going to get it to take away.

Perhaps take your own tupperware with you, I'd love to see that.

Sadly I so rarely get to eat out that I tend to finish everything so I'm not likely to be taking a tupperware any time soon.

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