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Open Source Color Management Is Broken

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Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#91

Post by newnewpdro »

braderhart wrote: post #88
newnewpdro wrote: post #79

It's unclear to me why there's no color palette/correction table exposed in libdrm/KMS at the kernel. It should just be part of the video mode, maybe with a bit to indicate when the driver/hardware doesn't support changing it. But always be able to read it out, make it linear nonsense when the support isn't there - that won't be worse than what we have now. Then the layers up the stack like Wayland/X/GNOME/KDE are ju…

Have you created it, cause if not then that might explain why what you want in detail doesn't exist.

Is your point that I should get off my ass and do it instead of complaining?

Or is your point that it's substantially more complicated than it appears, and I'd know that if I tried doing it myself?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#92

Post by Accacin »

hughsient wrote: post #65
Accacin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wrote a pretty detailed blog article explaining his issues and how he got around them, this is all very useful information to someone who is looking to do something similar. Spending €100 also isn't an insignificant amount, and for that price I would expect what I'm buying to work properly.

The ColorHug is a colorimeter designed to calibrate screens with an approximately-sRGB gamut. If you're trying to calibrate a wide-gamut screen with a ColorHug it isn't going to work very well. If you need to do anything other than consumer hardware you need to use a spectrophotometer (that can do spectral profiling) rather than a colorimter that's calibrated to different primaries than what it's trying to measure. A…

I get what you're saying, but when he plugged it in it didn't work. Even if he was trying to do what it's supposed to do he would have had problems.

I'd like to add I'm completely appreciative and thankful of what you're doing.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#93

Post by muzfuz »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #41
Bitcoin_McPonzi wrote: post #32

Many of my (Hollywood) clients need to do color grading and other accurate color work. What platforms do they all use? Not Macintosh, despite its reputation for being the platform for "graphics professionals" (it was missing 10 bit/channel color until very recently). And not Linux, despite its use in render farms. They use Windows 10 and HP DreamColor monitors. That's the only platform that works and works well for p…

I'm a colorist. Many of us do use windows, many use OSX, many more use Linux. Every major color critical application supports many types of LUTs and color management. Further, HP Dreamcolors have tons of problems and aren't considered solid for color critical work (but are fine for semi color accurate stuff like intermediate comps etc). Color accurate work is done over SDI with dedicated LUT boxes handling the color…

Yep. I was a Colourist in my former life (TV ads, promo films, music videos mainly), used Resolve on OSX with a Flanders monitor. Most other people I talked to were either using OSX or Linux. (Granted, this is a few years ago when ProRes was the primary capture and delivery codec).

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#94

Post by muzfuz »

hughsient wrote: post #62
giovannicarruba wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading this Linux rant and seeing how Apple is systematically marginalising its Pro customers, I'm actually inclined to believe you. Windows might be a pain for John Doe sometimes, but Microsoft also makes sure an insane amount of obscure professional features (like color management) keep working.

Apply hasn't cared about ColorSync for years. Every release they break something.

To be fair, the pro market doesn't care about ColorSync.

If you need color accuracy then you're calibrating your monitor hardware.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#95

Post by BenjiWiebe »

newnewpdro wrote: post #91
braderhart wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you created it, cause if not then that might explain why what you want in detail doesn't exist.

Is your point that I should get off my ass and do it instead of complaining? Or is your point that it's substantially more complicated than it appears, and I'd know that if I tried doing it myself?

Both points are likely applicable. :)

However I think complaining about open source software has its place. Sometimes the developer has never thought of adding the feature that the end user can't get along without.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#96

Post by pvg »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #41
Bitcoin_McPonzi wrote: post #32

Many of my (Hollywood) clients need to do color grading and other accurate color work. What platforms do they all use? Not Macintosh, despite its reputation for being the platform for "graphics professionals" (it was missing 10 bit/channel color until very recently). And not Linux, despite its use in render farms. They use Windows 10 and HP DreamColor monitors. That's the only platform that works and works well for p…

I'm a colorist. Many of us do use windows, many use OSX, many more use Linux. Every major color critical application supports many types of LUTs and color management. Further, HP Dreamcolors have tons of problems and aren't considered solid for color critical work (but are fine for semi color accurate stuff like intermediate comps etc). Color accurate work is done over SDI with dedicated LUT boxes handling the color…

I'm a colorist

This sounds pretty interesting. What do you actually do, in layperson-y terms?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#97

Post by andrewflnr »

braderhart wrote: post #88
newnewpdro wrote: post #79

It's unclear to me why there's no color palette/correction table exposed in libdrm/KMS at the kernel. It should just be part of the video mode, maybe with a bit to indicate when the driver/hardware doesn't support changing it. But always be able to read it out, make it linear nonsense when the support isn't there - that won't be worse than what we have now. Then the layers up the stack like Wayland/X/GNOME/KDE are ju…

Have you created it, cause if not then that might explain why what you want in detail doesn't exist.

No one has time to implement all the ideas they throw out in a casual discussion. That doesn't mean those ideas shouldn't be heard. If you have an actual argument, let's hear it, but your comment here is damaging and provides no value.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#98

Post by willtim »

hughsient wrote: post #65
Accacin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wrote a pretty detailed blog article explaining his issues and how he got around them, this is all very useful information to someone who is looking to do something similar. Spending €100 also isn't an insignificant amount, and for that price I would expect what I'm buying to work properly.

The ColorHug is a colorimeter designed to calibrate screens with an approximately-sRGB gamut. If you're trying to calibrate a wide-gamut screen with a ColorHug it isn't going to work very well. If you need to do anything other than consumer hardware you need to use a spectrophotometer (that can do spectral profiling) rather than a colorimter that's calibrated to different primaries than what it's trying to measure. A…

The BenQ monitor used in the article appears to be just "100% sRGB‎" and not wide-gamut.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#99

Post by mark-r »

andmarios wrote: post #45
mark-r wrote: post #12

If you write the calibration info to the video LUT, why does software also need to know about it? Isn't your monitor displaying perfectly calibrated sRGB at that point?

Not necessarily. After calibration your monitor displays as accurately as it can sRGB (or any other profile you calibrated for). It still may miss or shift parts of sRGB though. Thus your software has to know what your display is capable of. It can use this information to show you which parts of the photograph you edit are not shown accurately.

That would require a completely different profile, wouldn't it?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#100

Post by alphaalpha101 »

cornholio wrote: post #64

I think niche market software, used by a limited number of highly specialized professionals, is somewhat incompatible with the open source economic model. When a piece of software is used by very many users, and there is a strong overlap with coders or companies capable of coding, say an operating system or a a web server, open sources shines: there is adequate development investment by the power-users, in their regu…

Or you can just charge for open source software, which is already legal.
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