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Open Source Color Management Is Broken

lieberbiber.de

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Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#41

Post by ancientworldnow »

Bitcoin_McPonzi wrote: post #32

Many of my (Hollywood) clients need to do color grading and other accurate color work. What platforms do they all use? Not Macintosh, despite its reputation for being the platform for "graphics professionals" (it was missing 10 bit/channel color until very recently). And not Linux, despite its use in render farms. They use Windows 10 and HP DreamColor monitors. That's the only platform that works and works well for p…

I'm a colorist. Many of us do use windows, many use OSX, many more use Linux. Every major color critical application supports many types of LUTs and color management.

Further, HP Dreamcolors have tons of problems and aren't considered solid for color critical work (but are fine for semi color accurate stuff like intermediate comps etc). Color accurate work is done over SDI with dedicated LUT boxes handling the color transforms and the cheapest monitors being $7500 Flanders Scientific Inc 25" OLED panels.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#42

Post by giovannicarruba »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #38
userbinator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and it'll be difficult to turn off for those not in the professions named in the other comments here which require accurate colour, using monitors with smaller gamuts, and would much prefer to have the "raw", "unmanaged" behaviour.

What does “unmanaged” even mean? Anyone should strive to have as accurate colors as possible.

Did you just assume my color space preferences?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#43

Post by giovannicarruba »

pjmlp wrote: post #33
serf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type of comment is also the underlying reason why Linux improves/fixes things at such an astronomical rate compared to either of the choices you listed. It's not just saying "Hey you, go fix that." , it's saying "Hey everyone viewing this comment on a public page : this exists and needs to be fixed. Someone grab a wrench."

Yet the two most successfully desktop experiences among common users, based on Linux, don't expose any details of its eco-system. Quite telling.

Which two are those?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#44

Post by ancientworldnow »

giovannicarruba wrote: post #35
seba_dos1 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand that attitude, that's a pretty low price for a niche open hardware device.

It's not. An Eizo EX3 sells for 85 bucks here, a Spyder 5 for 95. A ColorHug2 amounts to 115. Since the ColorHug2 doesn't include the actual calibration software, it is equal to the EX3. Paying 35% more just for the "Open Hardware" label and then not being able to reap the expected benefits (better support etc.) doesn't sound like a good deal.

The EX3 and Spyder are not good probes. The cheapest quality probe I know of is the xrite i1 display pro. Everything below that is basically a toy. I've never used a ColorHug though so I'm not sure how it stacks up.

As for software, DisplayCal is actually very well regarded in pro color and considered one of the only serious three choices, the others being CalMAN and the big dog being Light Illusions.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#45

Post by andmarios »

mark-r wrote: post #12

If you write the calibration info to the video LUT, why does software also need to know about it? Isn't your monitor displaying perfectly calibrated sRGB at that point?

Not necessarily. After calibration your monitor displays as accurately as it can sRGB (or any other profile you calibrated for). It still may miss or shift parts of sRGB though.

Thus your software has to know what your display is capable of. It can use this information to show you which parts of the photograph you edit are not shown accurately.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#47

Post by userbinator »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #38
userbinator wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and it'll be difficult to turn off for those not in the professions named in the other comments here which require accurate colour, using monitors with smaller gamuts, and would much prefer to have the "raw", "unmanaged" behaviour.

What does “unmanaged” even mean? Anyone should strive to have as accurate colors as possible.

Mapping directly into the full gamut of the monitor, the way that almost every common computer did before the whole "color management" stuff even became a thing.

Anyone should strive to have as accurate colors as possible.

No, people have different needs and set their monitors' brightness and contrast accordingly. It's only the mentioned industries which require that accuracy --- and the associated, often very expensive, monitors and calibration equipment.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#48

Post by nitrogen »

serf wrote: post #29
pjmlp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is a developer, and this type of comments is why everyone that cares about UI/UX design professionally, eventually goes back to Windows or macOS.

That type of comment is also the underlying reason why Linux improves/fixes things at such an astronomical rate compared to either of the choices you listed. It's not just saying "Hey you, go fix that." , it's saying "Hey everyone viewing this comment on a public page : this exists and needs to be fixed. Someone grab a wrench."

The Linux desktop ecosystem's development model is highly prone to regression, though. I've been using it since Xmms was the most advanced media player. I've seen lots of things fixed, only for them to break again a yeaf or two later.

So sure, things are fixed at an astronomical rate, but that's because things are also decaying at an astronomical rate so there's a constant supply of low hanging fruit

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#49

Post by coldtea »

AboutTheWhisles wrote: post #39
Bitcoin_McPonzi wrote: post #32

Many of my (Hollywood) clients need to do color grading and other accurate color work. What platforms do they all use? Not Macintosh, despite its reputation for being the platform for "graphics professionals" (it was missing 10 bit/channel color until very recently). And not Linux, despite its use in render farms. They use Windows 10 and HP DreamColor monitors. That's the only platform that works and works well for p…

Every large visual effects studio runs on linux, with hundreds of linux workstations at each one. Color sensitive work like lighting and compositing has been done for well over a decade on linux. Artist workstations are calibrated and every major computer graphics application has support for look up tables.

>Every large visual effects studio runs on linux, with hundreds of linux workstations at each one. Color sensitive work like lighting and compositing has been done for well over a decade on linux.

That's for rendering, where the OS and Desktop experience doesn't really matter, and the cheaper it is the better.

Few pros do the actual editing and color work (where the decisions are made, not the rendering part) on Linux.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#50

Post by pzone »

coldtea wrote: post #49
AboutTheWhisles wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every large visual effects studio runs on linux, with hundreds of linux workstations at each one. Color sensitive work like lighting and compositing has been done for well over a decade on linux. Artist workstations are calibrated and every major computer graphics application has support for look up tables.

> Every large visual effects studio runs on linux, with hundreds of linux workstations at each one. Color sensitive work like lighting and compositing has been done for well over a decade on linux. That's for rendering, where the OS and Desktop experience doesn't really matter, and the cheaper it is the better. Few pros do the actual editing and color work (where the decisions are made, not the rendering part) on Lin…

That's not right - Linux is used on desktop workstations as well. Check out the discussion in this recent thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/7zms77/gnome_2_spott...

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