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The Teens Will Save Us

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Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#31

Post by aalleavitch »

raverbashing wrote: post #29
aalleavitch wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could fight for a system that never gives him that badge in the first place. Guns solve short term problems. They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that.

> They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that. Try that against the Mexican drug cartels and see how that goes

The Mexican drug cartels wouldn’t exist if we’d have established a system that doesn’t give them financial incentives to. These problems are fundamentally always an issue of the underlying social systems that bring them into being. You cannot shoot them away.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#32

Post by hnuser1234 »

adamrezich wrote: post #8

Young people are more willing to "rise up and fight The Man" than ever before, to be sure. The problem is, now that information is easier to spread instantaneously across the entire globe--and we carry devices that let us access this global information network in our pockets at all times--people are more prone to groupthink than ever before, and one's political beliefs are more directly shaped by social circumstances…

This article is written for people who seriously believe that the Trump admin is an attempt at a fascist coup the US. If you don't believe that, the article won't do much for you.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#33

Post by whowouldathunk »

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

One cost of all the guns is all the extra security. Schools resembling prisons, TSA, metal detectors and surveillance everywhere... doesn’t that also infringe on my freedom in a way?

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#34

Post by dwaltrip »

harryf wrote: post #26
aalleavitch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

To me the most powerful balance of this era is represented by apps like http://buycott.com - consumer activism, being smart about where you spend your money. The potential is huge although awareness and probably cynicism mean it hasn't yet become mainstream.

I don't think we can robustly rely on the whims and trends of consumer groups to safeguard our societies.

This is what public policy, laws, and regulations are supposed to do.

Although I suppose the problem there is that politicians and government offices don't generally seem to be properly incentivized and empowered to solve these long term issues...

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#35

Post by raverbashing »

aalleavitch wrote: post #31
raverbashing wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don’t overturn tyranny. Arguments, beliefs, and convictions do that. Try that against the Mexican drug cartels and see how that goes

The Mexican drug cartels wouldn’t exist if we’d have established a system that doesn’t give them financial incentives to. These problems are fundamentally always an issue of the underlying social systems that bring them into being. You cannot shoot them away.

I'm not concerned about what brought the cartels to existence, the question applies to any enemy force, replace "Mexican Cartels" with "Nazis" if you wish

Explain to me how you're supposed to deal with Nazis, or other invading armed force using "Arguments, beliefs, and convictions"

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#36

Post by CM30 »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

Wonder how long the drone thing will still be an advantage? Give it a few decades, and military type robots could become a common thing for hobbyists to own, especially in a place like the US where almost anything seems to go as far as private ownership is concerned. Or they could end up getting hacked.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#37

Post by guelo »

adamrezich wrote: post #8

Young people are more willing to "rise up and fight The Man" than ever before, to be sure. The problem is, now that information is easier to spread instantaneously across the entire globe--and we carry devices that let us access this global information network in our pockets at all times--people are more prone to groupthink than ever before, and one's political beliefs are more directly shaped by social circumstances…

> Critical thinking is becoming more and more discouraged, especially in educational settings, as outward expression of such is increasingly drowned out by overemotional responses.

I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading. As a teen's dad the teens I interact with are much more informed and aware than I remember from my gen-X era high school.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#38

Post by CM30 »

whowouldathunk wrote: post #33
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

One cost of all the guns is all the extra security. Schools resembling prisons, TSA, metal detectors and surveillance everywhere... doesn’t that also infringe on my freedom in a way?

Is that a cost of the guns, or the 'war on terror' stuff that became an obsession after 9/11? Because it's not much better in many places outside the US either.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#39

Post by Turing_Machine »

aalleavitch wrote: post #9
wemdyjreichert wrote: post #2

First they came for the guns. An unarmed populace is powerless against an abusive government. America was founded because we wanted more liberty. And for many years, we understood that increased liberty came with increased responsability and risk. People now seem to have forgotten that. If you want to remain free, it will be hard. Sometimes there will even be bloodshed. I mourn for the students killed, as I mourn for…

Your AR-15 is not going to defend you against a drone strike. The idea you could fight the government with privately owned weapons is completely laughable, and the entire notion comes from an era long before tanks and missiles and nuclear bombs made the entire concept ridiculous. If you want to fight an abusive government you do it through the power of an organized populace. You can’t force an entire nation to live a…

Tanks, missiles, and nuclear weapons are utterly useless in a guerilla war.

To be blunt: you don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: If, as you claim, rifles serve no function in modern warfare, please explain why every military organization in the world continues to issue them.

Re: The Teens Will Save Us

#40

Post by adamrezich »

guelo wrote: post #37
adamrezich wrote: post #8

Young people are more willing to "rise up and fight The Man" than ever before, to be sure. The problem is, now that information is easier to spread instantaneously across the entire globe--and we carry devices that let us access this global information network in our pockets at all times--people are more prone to groupthink than ever before, and one's political beliefs are more directly shaped by social circumstances…

> Critical thinking is becoming more and more discouraged, especially in educational settings, as outward expression of such is increasingly drowned out by overemotional responses. I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading. As a teen's dad the teens I interact with are much more informed and aware than I remember from my gen-X era high school.

>I don't think you have any evidence of this besides whatever media propaganda you might have been reading.

This is the most perfect sentence to immediately discredit anyone in political discussion today that I have ever seen. No matter what political perspective you have, you can say it and it magically works in your favor. I'll be keeping this in mind for future ironic use.

Also, ironically, this statement shows complete lack of critical thinking. I made an assertion without further explanation or citation, and instead of asking for further explanation or citation, you dismissed any conclusions I may have independently reached as being the result of "media propaganda," without even knowing the depths of my conclusions or how I reached them! This signals that you've made up your mind about the topic and aren't even willing to engage in discussion about it. Why post at all?

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