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21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

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Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#51

Post by adventured »

jokoon wrote: post #25

I'm French, I'm not a software engineer because I don't have the degree, but I can read every language out there, I speak English pretty well, I know how to do proper research to fix things, and as I saw in the comments, the situation here is very weird. I have been unemployed my whole life, my medical condition might have something to do with it, but when I hear that French companies put a lot of faith in a degree I…

Focus on a particularly in-demand specialty (versus being broad). Just as an example, the demand for React developers is extremely high right now. If front-end isn't your thing, the demand for Python engineers seems to have caught the industry by surprise, thanks to the AI boom. It has drained the available Python programmer supply. I'd expect that demand to continue.

There are a bunch of other specialties that can pay very well, such as ecommerce platforms. Ecommerce in the US will double over the next ten years. And given the sum involved, that's a pretty massive economic opportunity, there are not anywhere near enough engineers & developers to go around for that change. If you acquire an expertise with Shopify, Magento, Bigcommerce, etc. you can do very well in the space.

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#52

Post by mailshanx »

crdoconnor wrote: post #42
fro0116 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former Vancouverite here. I really wanted to work in Vancouver, but I simply could not justify taking the ~$80k CAD offer I had in Vancouver over an ~$140k USD offer from a company in SF. Even when taking into account the cost of living difference, which worked out to be about the same as the ratio between the salaries, the higher salary in SF wins out because given similar savings rates, the higher your salary, the…

I felt exactly the same way about Singapore. Penny pinching, MBA-ish types who don't get tech running everything, a confucianist predilection towards authoritarian managerial styles and nobody rocking the boat makes it something of a tech wasteland. Ironic cos the government has Silicon Valley envy and they've got it real bad - spraying cash liberally at everyone except actual developers in an attempt to clone the ma…

Interesting perspective! As an engineer contemplating SG, I would love to hear your Singapore story - what did you find there, and what did you eventually do?

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#54

Post by fro0116 »

randomdata wrote: post #50
fro0116 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case I wasn't being clear enough, by benefits, I meant benefits from the perspective of the Canadian tech industry, not necessarily from the perspective of Canadian society as a whole (that's a much more complex and nuanced subject, one that I haven't made up my mind on myself, and your points certainly seem valid). And the most obvious such benefit I can think of is slowing and/or reversing the longstanding trend…

> And the most obvious benefit I can think of is slowing and/or reversing the longstanding trend of the Canadian tech industry losing some of its best talent to the US because of salary disparity. The best talent that offers something special has no trouble attracting far more than $80,000/year in Canada. The people being offered $80,000/year are not the top talent that you speak of. That is an average, representing…

> The best talent has no trouble attracting far more than $80,000/year. I'm mediocre at best and have had no trouble attracting far more than that amount, in rural Canada no less. The people being offered $80,000/year are not the top talent that you speak of.

I was simply giving my own past offers as an anecdote to illustrate the cost-benefit analysis of why someone in that situation might choose to leave Canada. I was decidedly junior at the time, having just graduated, and by no means was I trying to claim anything about my own level of talent.

It seems like you may have read too much into that part of my post. Similarly, the quoted piece of your post above reads to me a lot like a thinly veiled ad-hominem, but I digress.

It sounds like there's at least one part of my chain of reasoning that you disagree with: that the size of the tech job market in Canada can potentially grow in concert with the Canadian tech industry's competitiveness relative to the US, and that the Canadian tech industry's competitiveness can improve relatively as a result of keeping more of its talent from leaking into the US.

If that's the case I think it's best if we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#55

Post by [deleted] »

msangi wrote: post #27
ddalex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm around 100k (pounds) in London, unless you're going to the giants (FB, Google) that go above that.

Don't forget about hedge funds. Judging from the messages I get from recruiters there are plenty of them. Their offer total compensations significantly above 100k£

[deleted]

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#56

Post by stfwn »

kelnos wrote: post #53
seanalltogether wrote: post #34

Keep in mind the data is adjusted for inflation, I'm not sure why the OP chose to do that.

I'm curious: why wouldn't you adjust for inflation? That seems to make it more of an apples-to-apples comparison to me.

Inflation is a very broad trend to adjust for. Maybe a dollar was worth 2% more in some part of the country while it bought you 5% less elsewhere. The ups and downs in local cost of living are probably extreme in SF, so adjusting with a nation-wide trend (which is probably nowhere near representative for SF) might be a bit arbitrary.

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#57

Post by crdoconnor »

mailshanx wrote: post #52
crdoconnor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt exactly the same way about Singapore. Penny pinching, MBA-ish types who don't get tech running everything, a confucianist predilection towards authoritarian managerial styles and nobody rocking the boat makes it something of a tech wasteland. Ironic cos the government has Silicon Valley envy and they've got it real bad - spraying cash liberally at everyone except actual developers in an attempt to clone the ma…

Interesting perspective! As an engineer contemplating SG, I would love to hear your Singapore story - what did you find there, and what did you eventually do?

I found it was 98% companies like ^^ that. The companies I actually worked in were bad.

I found two companies that seemed more or less sane (ok, but neither blew me away). One of them was receptive to hiring me but I got a different offer before we worked things out which I took and regretted. The other deliberated for, I think, two months before giving me an offer. That was more or less the last straw.

I turned them down, returned to London after that and doubled my take home pay.

Not long after I returned I discovered that not one but both of these companies were acquihired by Google when they opened an office in SG. I had a good chuckle at that.

Yeah, I'd avoid it. There are pockets of good stuff as there are anywhere, but I think they're fewer and further between.

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#58

Post by nikhizzle »

jokoon wrote: post #25

I'm French, I'm not a software engineer because I don't have the degree, but I can read every language out there, I speak English pretty well, I know how to do proper research to fix things, and as I saw in the comments, the situation here is very weird. I have been unemployed my whole life, my medical condition might have something to do with it, but when I hear that French companies put a lot of faith in a degree I…

Try applying through triplebyte. Their goal is a candidate blind, pure merit application process.

I used them in my last job search, and was super impressed with every step along the way. Low stress, and lots of constant feedback on how to make myself a better candidate.

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#59

Post by randomdata »

fro0116 wrote: post #54
randomdata wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the most obvious benefit I can think of is slowing and/or reversing the longstanding trend of the Canadian tech industry losing some of its best talent to the US because of salary disparity. The best talent that offers something special has no trouble attracting far more than $80,000/year in Canada. The people being offered $80,000/year are not the top talent that you speak of. That is an average, representing…

> The best talent has no trouble attracting far more than $80,000/year. I'm mediocre at best and have had no trouble attracting far more than that amount, in rural Canada no less. The people being offered $80,000/year are not the top talent that you speak of. I was simply giving my own past offers as an anecdote to illustrate the cost-benefit analysis of why someone in that situation might choose to leave Canada. I w…

> and by no means was I trying to claim anything about my own level of talent.

I did not realize we were talking about you? It is simply that the average figure of $80,000 given earlier represents average. The nature of average means that there will be values that are higher. That is where your top talent lies, mathematically. Average tech people lie at the average.

> Similarly, the quoted piece of your post above reads to me a lot like a thinly veiled ad-hominem

I feel that you may have read too much into my comment. I have no animosity towards you for sharing your point of view, and I am not sure why I ever would. My comment wasn't directed at anyone, especially not you. I was only looking at the situation mathematically, as described above. But, it is the undeniable reality that not all people are equal. Even you recognized that top talent exists. I'm not sure why we would change our tune at this point?

> that the size of the tech job market in Canada can potentially grow in concert with the Canadian tech industry's competitiveness relative to the US, and that the Canadian tech industry's competitiveness can improve relatively as a result of keeping more of its talent from leaking into the US.

I'm just not clear how "if you build it, they will come" applies here. We've built the workforce and the work hasn't come. As a result, people are opting to leave for the US where the work is needed. If the tech industry utilized the top talent, and even the not so top talent, these people would have never left. You might have a good point here, and I am interested in learning about it, but I'm afraid I still haven't quite grasped how you think this would actually play out in the real world.

It remains that Canada produces more tech people than it needs. What else can they do but find work where it is needed? Should they sit around and do nothing while the Canada tech industry someday eventually finds work for them to do?

Re: 21 Years of Income as a Software Engineer in San Francisco

#60

Post by odino »

adventured wrote: post #49
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we (Europeans) generally argue that paying taxes and universal healthcare is great not that earning less is. Also while some professions pay less others pay more (like working in a grocery store) so it’s not that clear cut.

That's a pretty broad statement about Europe. The majority of Europe is poor compared to Sweden or Germany. If you're making ~$60,000 or more in the US, you are overwhelmingly going to have good health insurance. If you're making $140,000, you're going to have great health insurance. I fail to see how universal healthcare is a lure in this case. The US has a far more progressive income tax system than most of the dev…

> If you're making ~$60,000 or more in the US, you are overwhelmingly going to have good health insurance. If you're making $140,000, you're going to have great health insurance. I fail to see how universal healthcare is a lure in this case.

If you get insured.

I think most Europeans are proud to pay taxes to make sure a random fellow living down the street who got cancer can afford his treatments. At least that has been my mentality around taxes for as long as I've lived there.

Sure, taxes don't all go towards nice things :) but at the end of the day I'm proud to be helpful to those who are in need.

Never understood the healthcare system in the US, it just sounds "wrong" to me.

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