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The Poison We Pick

nymag.com

111–120 of 218 posts

Re: The Poison We Pick

#111

The first thing I did when I opened this article was search for "rat", and was happy to see it there. From the comments I saw I had a hunch it might be: I recently finished a really powerful chapter in the book "Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs" which describes an experiment involving rats that ostensibly shows that addiction isn't about the chemical, but rather it's about the environme…

In addition to rat park[0], there's also been an amazing study wrt to Viet Nam vets[1]. Only 5% of soldiers relapsed to heroin use in the first year of returning home. Compared to a traditional 90% relapse rate when addicts treated in the US return to their homes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/01/05/3718949...

Ahh yes, this story of Vietnam is also in the book. Thanks for mentioning it. It was also a really powerful anecdote.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#112

> "And so we wait to see what amount of death will be tolerable in America as the price of retaining prohibition. Is it 100,000 deaths a year? More? At what point does a medical emergency actually provoke a government response that takes mass death seriously? Imagine a terror attack that killed over 40,000 people. Imagine a new virus that threatened to kill 52,000 Americans this year. Wouldn’t any government make it…

In the grand scheme of things, 100,000 deaths is a non-event for a government representing over 300,000,000 constituents. Almost 6 times that many people die from both cancer and heart disease each year. Where it becomes a problem for governments is when there's bad PR. They focus their attention on terrorism because it commands the national attention, not because it's a significant threat. While the abuse of opioids is no doubt a problem, it's getting government attention now because of media scrutiny, not because it absolutely needs to be solved by government.

Humans are terrible at estimating risk. We seem to do it by attributing it to the ease which we can recall an incidence of something similar happening. This may have worked well when we were part of small tribes, but it's terribly adapted to a world where every unusual, capricious event is is broadcast nationally and the mundane, common dangers receive very little media attention.

You can see this with the current debate over guns. Now I favor the liberal position of drastically increasing gun control, but only around 11,000 people are murdered with guns each year and another 22,000 or so kill themselves. That's around a 1/30,000 chance of being the victim of gun violence. Those deaths may be largely unnecessary, but we should still have the perspective to realize that they're not a significant threat to our health.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#113

"It’s been several decades since Daniel Bell wrote The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, but his insights have proven prescient. Ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations, destroying what conservatives value the most. They create a less human world. They make us less happy. They generate pain." Thi…

while that quote is interesting, it also posits progressivism as the culprit, and by allusion, points to conservatism as the solution, but that’s plainly wrong.

it must be taken as a given that change (i.e., progress) will happen. you can thank the 2nd law of thermodynamics for that. so then the perspective must shift from “can we keep the world the same as we imagine it to have been in the past (while ignoring all the bad parts and negative consequences)?” to “how do we deal with a changing world, adapt to it, and focus our efforts toward positive change?” we just don’t get to sit still. life only happens in the gap between order and chaos.

the quote i prefer is

“The oxytocin we experience from love or friendship or orgasm is chemically replicated by the molecules derived from the poppy plant. It’s a shortcut — and an instant intensification — of the happiness we might ordinarily experience in a good and fruitful communal life. It ends not just physical pain but psychological, emotional, even existential pain.”

this articulates a mechanism by which opioid addiction lodges itself in the failed corners of society. so how do we fix that? it’s not by considering addicts criminals. the “war on drugs” experiment has proven that doesn’t work. instead, we need to accept the social responsibility of creating “losers” in the first place. we need to progress to the next level of societal structure that redirects folks back into meaningful and purposeful lives.

i think the stage might be set to move to a kind of globally-aware localism. that is, having people focus on their microcommunities (the 5-10 block radius around where we live in cities, a bit bigger in less dense areas). how do we organize homes, schools, businesses, offices, services, etc. in ways that reinforce our ties to each other rather than two-dimensional celebrities and fantasies of far-off wealth and fame that make you feel like you’re losing? but also use technology to learn from those far-flung places to improve your own lives locally. you only need a few people around you appreciating your efforts to get plenty of oxytocin to forget about the hard opioids.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#114
post #104

"It’s been several decades since Daniel Bell wrote The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, but his insights have proven prescient. Ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations, destroying what conservatives value the most. They create a less human world. They make us less happy. They generate pain." Thi…

> ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations Is there an actual example of this? I can't think of a single one.

Society splitting into haves and have nots due to technology, globalization, and a myriad of other things most definitely changes social cohesion. That's just one example, when (if?)people finally start paying attention there will be many more obvious effects.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#115
post #23

I've been talking with my brother a lot about this recently, especially as a function of the overall decrease of 'meaning' in the world. I think it goes back even further, to the advent of postmodernism in the throes of World War I. They were the first lost generation, but I don't think they were the last. The death of modernism and the accompanying assault on the bastions of objective meaning (as discussed in the ar…

Your comment about the rabid consumption of fiction these days hits home for me personally. In this "golden age" of television, with more high quality entertainment than anyone can possibly consume, I've begun to feel that my media consumption is more compulsive escapism than casual enjoyment. I find Pitirim Sorokin's classification of societies as either ideational (spiritual) or sensate (materialistic) helpful in u…

> utterly devastated the individual dignity of man

I smell survivorship bias.

Have the masses of humanity ever had dignity?

In the distant past the peasantry were largely illiterate, so nothing of them survives. What we get are a lot of stories written by upper class literate people suggesting that they had dignity and meaning.

In the more recent past they lacked access to broadcast media or television stations, so very little of them survives. What we get is again a lot of survivorship bias.

Now they all have Internet connections and can fill cyberspace with their cries for help, so now we say "hey, why are all these people so unhappy?"

History is one consistent story of wars over nothing, constant crime and drama, and escapism through sex, drugs, entertainment, and religion-used-as-opiate. Those are things that people who lack a sense of dignity or purpose do to pass the time until they die.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#116
post #104

"It’s been several decades since Daniel Bell wrote The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, but his insights have proven prescient. Ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations, destroying what conservatives value the most. They create a less human world. They make us less happy. They generate pain." Thi…

> ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations Is there an actual example of this? I can't think of a single one.

The escalating offensiveness of media due to the fact that offensive speech gets attention and therefore makes money?

Re: The Poison We Pick

#117
> It is a story of how the most ancient painkiller known to humanity has emerged to numb the agonies of the world’s most highly evolved liberal democracy.

Pretty strong statement

Re: The Poison We Pick

#119
post #104

"It’s been several decades since Daniel Bell wrote The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, but his insights have proven prescient. Ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations, destroying what conservatives value the most. They create a less human world. They make us less happy. They generate pain." Thi…

> ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations Is there an actual example of this? I can't think of a single one.

Not a single one? That is unbelievable.

You could check out the article at top of this page since you’re so close.

Most TV shows or movies have numerous. Have you ever watched TV shows or...

Actually, since these things are so easy to find, I think it’s safe to assume you don’t even know where to start. We could start with your comments for inspiration.

I just copied the very first one in your profile becaue it includes a good start of what an example of this could look like.

“Start your own category, create software for it, then convince everyone that the category is important.”

This sounds like advice on how to navigate a market, which is an effort that will represent our force. There are many economic theories to explain why markets are the best environment to generate useful products. Can you imagine how your advice could lead to a product that is not useful? I can: if the category is not important but you succeed in convincing people that it is, what have we accomplished collectively? Nothing important! That is for sure.

Well, the problem about things like social stability, tradition, religion, and civil associations is they are important.

If your advice is enough to do well in a free-market economy, then that is good for you, and somebody else will do the important things. This is all fine and good assuming somebody else doesn’t fuck up.

But what if somebody else is an HN reader? And what if they come across your revalational advice, and realize they can just convince people things are important instead of doing the important things? They quit the important things.

Now there is nobody tending to important things: social stability, tradition, religion, civil associations which is a sure bet for havoc!

Easy shmeezy. It’s right under your nose if you pay any attention at all. Maybe you are an example yourself. Seems possible.

Re: The Poison We Pick

#120
Rather than place the blame on a lack of structure, community or spirituality, I see this as just a natural consequence of a system optimised at every turn for economic output.

I've heard a lot about a singularity doomsday scenario where a paperclip-maximising AI realises people are much less useful as paperclip constructors than they are as paperclip ingredients. Surely it can't be so hard to see that the productivity-maximising AI that we've cobbled together out of economic rather than electromechanical components is slowly realising it doesn't need us anymore either?

The truth is the economy soon won't have any use for poor whites other than consuming the output of rich whites. The last bastions of unskilled and semi-skilled labour are being automated or sent overseas (to be automated there). I'm really curious to see what America's 3.5 million truck drivers do when they lose their jobs over the next ten years. I guess we'll teach them to code?

But don't feel too sorry for them; the rising tide of productivity caught poor blacks before that, and all the hamster-wheeling busywork of the middle class is up next. Managers and decision-makers will stay above it right up until they realise abstraction cuts both ways. It'll just be the quants at the end, tweaking the last few parameters and getting the lights on the way out.

I think most of the world at least tries to keep the economic AI from being in charge of everything. It's hard because it keeps buying our politicians, but even so there's a sense that it should be serving our values, not the other way around. We might work with it, respect it even, but we don't trust it.

The USA is pretty strange in this sense, because somewhere along the line a huge chunk of the population got convinced that if they just leave everything to the paperclip AI it'll take care of them. And, for a time, it will, and the people who work hard to make paperclips get rewarded, and the people who start paperclip factories get rewarded more still. But, inevitably, you're not a paperclip, and your value is incidental in this system.

Faced with that, then, your only options are to find a system where people have value independent of their productivity, make being valueless palatable, or just go die quietly somewhere. It's probably not so surprising that, in the absence of the former option, the latter two are becoming increasingly popular.

And, I guess, not so surprising that the paperclip worshippers are particularly unconcerned with mental health and sensible drug policy. Still pretty gross though.

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