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Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

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Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#241

Post by talmand »

mozumder wrote: post #190
throwawayfjk wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume that the rural are rational to the same degree as anyone else, so the statistical difference mostly means they find college less beneficial relative to their opportunities. There is too much of an agenda feel to this piece, from the title to selective interviews and statistics

> I would assume that the rural are rational to the same degree as anyone else, The rural have limited social interaction, leading to a biased worldview.

I see this as more of the condescending attitude of the type the comment was complaining about.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#242

Post by talmand »

bernardino wrote: post #179
forapurpose wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While college, as you mentioned, has become just a pursuit for "paper credentials for a specialized position you want ... You are going to cost yourself a lifetime of benefit if you make a decision based on these Internet rants of the moment; in 10 years they will be forgotten and you will be stuck with the consequences. One thing you learn with a real education is how to evaluate serious ideas and separate them fr…

Well said, and thank you. What you said reminds me a lot of the first few pages in the first chapter, The Function of Education, from Krishnamurti's Think On These Things - a good read.

While the comment is generally true, just hope that the college of your choice agrees with the notion. I would research the colleges in consideration to make sure they could fulfill such ideals.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#243

Post by rweba »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

(1) Your sentiment is common on HN and I do agree that a college degree is overemphasized as a universal panacea, but it's also absolutely true that lots of people benefit from a university education. Comments like yours make it sound like every individual student would be better off if they skipped college. I don't think that's true.

(2) Going to college is like joining a gym. Some people go to the gym every day, seek out the in-house trainers for free tips, study fitness YouTube videos in their spare time, maybe even make a ton of friends at the gym. Other people pay the same monthly fee but can never seem to find the time to actually go to the gym yet they find plenty of time to play video games and eat junk food. My point is that you can't blame the gym if you don't get in shape. Students have to actively participate in the process if they are going to get the most out of it and unfortunately many do not. I don't think that's entirely the responsibility of the college.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#244

Post by gilbetron »

kelnos wrote: post #202
gilbetron wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why should people pay for your lifestyle just because you choose it? I live in a small city, but if it stopped being capable of supporting itself and suburbs (somehow) were more sustainable, I would move to them. Sitting in a low per-capita situation is economically infeasible for many, so they should either live with what they have or adapt. I would love to sit around and read fiction for a living,…

You seem to vastly overestimate the choices people have, especially those who live in rural areas where there are more people than jobs, and many people live paycheck to paycheck. You mention "not having enough money" -- yes, that's exactly it, and many (most?) of the people in that situation don't have a way out of it. You can't get a better paying job where you live if there isn't one, or at least isn't one you're…

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't traps. I strongly believe we should have some economic mechanism to help people relocate to where the jobs are - a major reason our country is in the current situation is due to people not moving like we thought they would. Part of that is being stuck, and we need to address that (more). But another part of that is the belief that the world should adapt to you. It's funny, because many people making fun of being entitled, are actually incredibly entitled in believing that jobs should come to them.

There was an interesting thread on reddit about coal towns in (I think) Virginia, and the mindset of people there and the situation they were in. It was stated that there was a large pool of money in the state available to people for retraining (coal to trucking or solar development, etc) and something like less than 25% of the money was even used.

A woman I know got a simple laser cutter and designed a site around doing craft projects with it. In under a year she has thousands of followers and is making thousands a month doing it. I mean, hell, just get you and your friends together and say, "ok, we need to get out of here, lets all live together as cheaply as possible, until we have enough money, then rent some place in a better location, and live there, pooling resources, until we all get better jobs."

There are options, now more than ever with the Internet existing and the mind numbing amount of resources it brings.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#245

Post by thousandautumns »

VectorLock wrote: post #40
nugi wrote: post #6

The world continues to focus on cities, while the rest of the people are left behind. I notice a clear metropolitan bias on HN, often incredulous that 1st world citizens are still living in a unimproved state. Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. Please keep in your minds…

Why shouldn't the world focus on cities? If you're choosing to live in an area where you're geographically separated from other people can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together?

You are vastly overestimating the amount of control these people have over where they live.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#246

Post by heedlessly2 »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #135
vanilla_nut wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I come from a rural area and I feel that college was absolutely worth it for me, even with the huge bill that I had to pay myself. (I graduated fairly recently) College was the first time in my life when I feel like I truly took responsibility for myself, and people generally thought I was a responsible kid growing up. I finally found myself in a place where I could make friends who shared interest…

> It's important to keep in mind that college is meant to enrich people as individuals, not explicitly prepare them for jobs. Technical/vocational schools are for job prep. The more college is shown to be failing the job market, the more I hear this argument. Are people who don't go to college less enriched individuals? Lately, academics seem to be shifting their value proposition to the instillation of this undetect…

while not necessary, college provides a social framework for many people. if i visit, NYC, SF, Seattle, Chicago, Boston, or DC, then i have alumni friends i can hit up and hang out with.

I'm not sure how you could do the same without going to college

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#247

Post by moduspol »

thousandautumns wrote: post #240
moduspol wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The best gun is the one you're most familiar with shooting. If the one you'll spend the most time shooting is an AR-15, then it's that one. It's also irrelevant. Home protection isn't the only reason you'd have a gun in a rural setting. They're also quite excellent for keeping groundhogs and coyotes off of one's property, and for recreational purposes. This mindset of people who know nothing about guns (e…

> It depends. The best gun is the one you're most familiar with shooting. If the one you'll spend the most time shooting is an AR-15, then it's that one. So what you are saying is that banning the AR-15 shouldn't be problematic for people, because they can simply become familiar with other options like shotguns, making them the best gun for them? > It's also irrelevant. Home protection isn't the only reason you'd hav…

> So what you are saying is that banning the AR-15 shouldn't be problematic for people, because they can simply become familiar with other options like shotguns, making them the best gun for them?

Why stop there? They can learn Jiu Jitsu and not need the shotgun! All things are possible when we are just speculating about how to take others' rights in theoretical scenarios we won't have to deal with ourselves.

The AR-15 is a fun gun to shoot, which is why it is popular.

> I think the exact problem is not "you should only be allowed to have what I think you need". Every regulation and law in existence is a variation of "you should only be allowed to do X to the extent I think you need". A speed limit is functionally equivalent to the statement "you should only be allowed to drive as fast as I think you need". They are all attempts at balancing utility (how fast you can drive) and costs for yourself and those around you (getting in a crash).

Speed limits are something we all understand culturally, and are not set at the federal level.

If huge swaths of the country had no cars or roads, they might clamor for federally lower speed limits every time there was a bus accident. "The actual problem is the mindset of people like yourself claiming that going 10 MPH faster outweighs the real loss of human lives." And that's basically what happens with guns any time there is a mass shooting.

> The actual problem is the mindset of people like yourself claiming the utility of weapons like the AR-15 for tasks like groundhog control and recreation outweighs the costs of AR-15s being used to take human lives.

The second amendment's purpose is for the gun's use for the purpose of taking lives. Nobody's arguing groundhog control is the only valid use case for having a weapon. Valid use cases include as a check against government tyranny (as protected by the second amendment), home defense, as well as the other reasons I mentioned.

And if you're going to complain about the AR-15, you have to state where you draw the line. Presumably a ban of AR-15s alone wouldn't accomplish your goals. What guns and gun features are you proposing banning?

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#248

Post by tonyedgecombe »

evoloution wrote: post #163
throwaway0255 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I mentioned government-mandated credentials, I was thinking more of the medical and legal fields. Software engineering is ideal in this respect, because it's pretty much unregulated in that regard. That makes software engineering an ideal choice for people not going to college at all. But since you're already 4 years in, you might as well finish. So definitely finish. Outside of credentialism, there's still the…

This, finish and go to the best Uni you can; everything else that anyone tells you may not serve you well. Although throwaway0255 is making an argument about whether you could achieve better education by yourself vs. an organized university curriculum, you should never overlook the effect that a degree from a prestigious University can have. In most fields companies hire people from the highest ranked Universities, w…

This, finish and go to the best Uni you can;

There was an interesting program on BBC Radio last year that questioned this, they had an example of a student that had excelled during school and went on to the top university for her subject where she found herself in the middle of the pack. This ended any career opportunities in that subject for her.

She knew people who took the same subject at lower tier universities, they came out top of the class and were able to find work in the same subject.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#249

Post by coldtea »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

>Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks?

Isn't those questions irrelevant to the issue the author poses: the lack of access to higher education of people from rural backgrounds.

That they can still get employed at "most jobs (that) don't require higher education" (which includes McDonalds), doesn't mean much. Do they get the better deal, or do their higher educated peers do (even if that education wasn't "really needed" by their future career)?

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#250

Post by abakker »

raverbashing wrote: post #230
zamfi wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lately, academics seem to be shifting their value proposition to the instillation of this undetectable unmeasurable X-factor. We can't see it, we can't prove that it exists, but it's there, and its value is absolutely incalculable. Historically, college was a finishing school for the wealthy. This is not a new argument. The new argument is that colleges should provide job training. Previously, this was the role of…

Vocational or training schools don't graduate physicians, engineers, architects, lawyers, etc

Neither do undergraduate colleges. Graduate programs are almost by definition vocational.
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