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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#361

Post by subsubsub »

grinsekatze wrote: post #240
monk_e_boy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

> Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? i think it simply does not register, until something flips the switch. "money" is a powerful trigger. people pay special attention to what it is connected to.

One possible reason that no one's mentioned...

It isn't about the money you pay, but the money you keep.

If I buy a few things for £4.99 then without a bag I can pay with a £10 note and get a £5 note back, but with the 5p charge I receive loads of coins in change.

Plus the cognitive pain of monetary amounts like £5.04

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#362

Post by JoeAltmaier »

prewett wrote: post #327
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd put the prettiness factor down pretty far in environmental concerns. That is part of the 'theatre' side of the equation in fact?

Actually, it's pretty high up for me. The look of trash and the relaxing, beautiful look of nature are pretty much opposites for me.

Yes, and the cute furry animals get all the protection too. But its nonsense, if avoiding environmental meltdown is your goal. If its about feeling good about yourself when you throw that pop can in the recycle bin, that's theatre.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#363

Post by dpark »

astrodust wrote: post #319
dpark wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastics being biodegradable might not be much of a net gain. It would help clean up some, but it also means all that carbon makes it’s way into the air. Mixed bag there.

Most plastics labelled "biodegradeable" aren't actually what they say. What they do is break down under ultraviolet light into very tiny particles you can't see but which are still plastic. These diffuse into the environment, but they never truly break down into more natural compounds. It's the equivalent of sweeping all those bags under the rug. They're still out there, just permeating into everything instead of bei…

I was referring to the fact that some microbes can actually metabolize certain plastics. But yeah, just breaking down into tiny pieces is definitely not great.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#364

Post by dpark »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #337
dpark wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The polypropylene bags sold at many retailers (REI, Whole Foods, etc) only need to be used a few times to offset their increased cost of production. “Nonwoven PP, on the other hand, is less costly than cotton. These bags need to be reused only 11 times to break even with the conventional plastic.” Of course these are less durable that heavy cotton canvas. I doubt I could use one of these 200 times. I could definitely…

How about I use a plastic bag twice? Now you have to use the canvas one 400 times. Its just a losing gambit. You know how many shopping bags we have around the house? Supposed to save energy, but once you have 4 or 5 of them, you're up to a lifetime supply of plastic bags. And I'm sure we're not the only once. This 'issue' is eco-theatre, in my view.

You don’t have to use the canvas one 200 times. It’s more like 130. And less if you use nylon or hemp or anything less energy costly than cotton. But yeah, if you want to reuse your throwaway bags, go ahead. It’s certainly a greener option than throwing them out.

It’s not “eco-theater” to want to reduce the ecological cost of bags, though. Not is it “eco-theater” to want to keep millions of plastic bags out of the oceans and rivers, or out of storm drains where they cause clogs, or out of bushes and trees where they are just ugly.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#365

Post by Baeocystin »

vmarsy wrote: post #295
technofiend wrote: post #10

The UK dropped to 500 million bags annually used from 7 billion after introduction of a 5 pence per bag charge. That's just one country albeit one of the world's largest. Still I think we're over due for much more agressive action. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jul/30/england-...

Same in France, the stores starting charging for plastic bags (even before the gov introduced a tax) in the early 2000s, and it dropped to 800 millions back in 2010, from 15 billion in 2003.[1][2] Since 2016 they're completely banned. Glad to see that more countries took similar easy steps. The E.U. is forcing every member country charge for those bags by the end of 2018, and to make sure on average people use less t…

The number of bags used drop is significant, but I wonder how much the volume of plastic used has changed?

This is an honest question. I am genuinely curious. Here in California, for example, the 10 cent bags you now pay for are much more robust than the cheap freebies of before, but also clearly use more material in their construction. I would estimate at least 5x-10x the mass per bag of the previous free ones.

(I much prefer the newer system, FWIW. The stronger bags are much more useful around the home, too.)

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#366

Post by pbhjpbhj »

narag wrote: post #339
monk_e_boy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home? Is this a people thing? I observed very often that cashiers routinely gave away much too many bags for customers that didn't ask for them, maybe to look generous? I still see in McDonalds and Burger King that they insist in putting in the shelf a lot of ketchup bags, drinking straws or paper napkings that I don't asked for or want. Simply…

In UK Burger King charge for sauces, McDo always give a handful even when I ask for "a barbecue sauce" or "2 ketchups".

I guess for McDo the sauce costs a penny or two and they want to minimise interactions as they are costly; but theft must be too high off sauce is freely available.

For McDo it might well be a strong differentiator, customers see them as generous because of the excess sauce. Might also cause customers to make less mess under the psychology of feeling endebted when receiving a "gift".

Re plastic, a packaging company CEO stated on BBC radio (R4) this evening the expected additional cost of replacing burger packaging with fully home-compostable burger packaging was around 1p and that they had similar solutions for all fast food packaging ready to go. Financial incentives to responsible packaging solutions seem necessary at this point.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#367

Post by thaumasiotes »

kelnos wrote: post #343
icebraining wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The War on Drugs is a testament that simply banning something definitively means it disappears.

People don't get psychologically addicted to guns like they do to most drugs. Gun bans are perfectly successful in drastically reducing gun violence in countries other than the US.

People are plenty addicted to being paid $10K per to manufacture guns. Who needs to sell them?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#368

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #354
HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common to buy something then be asked to pay 5% more if you want a receipt - 5% being their sales tax.

I've experienced that kind of shenanigans in Vietnam, but never in Taiwan. What did you buy?

Electronics

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#369

Post by philliphaydon »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #93

> uniform invoices – widely used in Taiwan I wondered what this meant, so I looked it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Invoice_lottery To encourage businesses to report their earnings, Taiwan's tax authorities operate a receipt lottery. Genius.

Thanks for reminding me to check all my receipts, see if I won anything tonight!

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#370

Post by philliphaydon »

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #368
gurkendoktor wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced that kind of shenanigans in Vietnam, but never in Taiwan. What did you buy?

Electronics

I've never, ever, been asked to pay more for a receipt.
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