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Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

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Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#331

Post by brazzy »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #220
danans wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But on the recycling side, they are spectacularly inefficient All the more reason to ban them outright isn't it?

Good thought. But the ecological (read: CO2) impact of paper bags and even cloth ones, are they clearly superior? I doubt it. Its just so dang cheap to make a WalMart bag. I see 'ban the bag!' as eco-theatre.

> the ecological (read: CO2) impact

No, do not read CO2. That's not what banning plastic bags is about. It's about not having them all over the environment where all kinds of animals, from sea turtles to cows to elephants, eat them or get entangled in them

http://www.newsweek.com/plastic-pollution-bigger-threat-sea-...

http://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/pft/2016/8/9/plasti...

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#333

Post by walshemj »

ksk wrote: post #303
emodendroket wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that disposable bags, disposable straws, disposable chopsticks, and the like are in a different category because there is a ready alternative which is not particularly onerous to use.

You're quite right. But, how many tech people do you think are willing to inconvenience themselves with a heavy laptop or a bulky smartphone if it meant that they were repairable? My opinion is that the vast majority will continue to line up to buy the latest shiny use-and-throw bauble from TechCompanyX, while railing against coal and plastics. I'm just against the "Do as I say, not as I do" mindset.

Just get apple to sack Jony Ive, introduce a new apple with a rugged brutalist style and make a feature of making it be repairable (with only apple Tm parts).

Only Slightly Joking

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#334

Post by monksy »

juliushuijnk wrote: post #195
monksy wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't want to give the city more money. They've already upped income tax, property tax (property values have been going up as well), and they played with the sales tax.

So you're ok with it, if the money just goes to the shop, but they are obligated to ask that minimum price?

Given the context of what's been happening in Chicago, and a bit of the mismanagement of how they prioritize things: It's been frustrating to be hit with a lot more taxes.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#335

Post by leetcrew »

undersuit wrote: post #154
leetcrew wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paper straws really suck, please don't let them be the solution.

What's the problem with paper straws?

as others have said, they are really just not robust. if you go out to dinner and order a coke with a paper straw, the end is basically disintegrating in your mouth by the time you've finished your appetizer.

worse still, they impart much more of a flavor to the drink than a plastic or metal straw.

they seem to be able to make biodegradable plastic(ish?) straws which are fine, and sometimes it can actually feel kinda fancy to use a metal straw (which can be reused).

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#336

Post by emodendroket »

ksk wrote: post #303
emodendroket wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that disposable bags, disposable straws, disposable chopsticks, and the like are in a different category because there is a ready alternative which is not particularly onerous to use.

You're quite right. But, how many tech people do you think are willing to inconvenience themselves with a heavy laptop or a bulky smartphone if it meant that they were repairable? My opinion is that the vast majority will continue to line up to buy the latest shiny use-and-throw bauble from TechCompanyX, while railing against coal and plastics. I'm just against the "Do as I say, not as I do" mindset.

Are tech people uniquely unlikely to use plastic bags? I don't really understand the logic here, and a laptop that is appreciably worse seems like the wrong analogy to a canvas bag.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#337

Post by JoeAltmaier »

dpark wrote: post #315
morsch wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are studies on this topic. Here's an article: https://medium.com/stanford-magazine/paper-plastic-or-reusab... I spent an hour or so researching the issue a long time ago and I seem to recall another study by a French supermarket chain. You need to reuse your cotton bags a lot -- hundreds of times is right -- for it to become worthwhile. Which is doable, of course. And of course, the carbon footprint of both pla…

The polypropylene bags sold at many retailers (REI, Whole Foods, etc) only need to be used a few times to offset their increased cost of production. “Nonwoven PP, on the other hand, is less costly than cotton. These bags need to be reused only 11 times to break even with the conventional plastic.” Of course these are less durable that heavy cotton canvas. I doubt I could use one of these 200 times. I could definitely…

How about I use a plastic bag twice? Now you have to use the canvas one 400 times.

Its just a losing gambit. You know how many shopping bags we have around the house? Supposed to save energy, but once you have 4 or 5 of them, you're up to a lifetime supply of plastic bags. And I'm sure we're not the only once.

This 'issue' is eco-theatre, in my view.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#338

Post by kelnos »

deepvibrations wrote: post #221
monk_e_boy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

The ideal scenario is to reward customers for being environmentally conscious as oppose to penalising those who aren't. eg. A 5p-off your shopping incentive for every re-used bag. However, sadly I don't think this would work as well currently.

A bubble tea place near me gives out glass bottles, and offers a 10% discount if you bring back the bottle for a refill. I have... quite a few bottles in my cupboard now. It doesn't work, for me, at least.

An extra charge to 'buy' the bottle would likely be a more effective incentive for me.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#339

Post by narag »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #203
wastedhours wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, but since it was introduced, I've gone from getting a new bag every day (lunch/fresh groceries), to using the same one for pretty much the last 6 months. It was a very noticeable shift to making me think about their use. Buying one because I've forgotten is a rare, and slight annoyance (the price doesn't put me off, it just changes the mental model).

Lots of my friends have said the same thing. I've always wondered why people didn't re-use bags before the charge... Saving the environment didn't matter, but 5p does? People didn't know plastic was bad before? They didn't care? It's great that the 5p charge works, but do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

do we need to have a 5p charge on every bit of plastic to drive the point home?

Is this a people thing?

I observed very often that cashiers routinely gave away much too many bags for customers that didn't ask for them, maybe to look generous?

I still see in McDonalds and Burger King that they insist in putting in the shelf a lot of ketchup bags, drinking straws or paper napkings that I don't asked for or want. Simply forbidding them to do that if not requested would save a lot of trouble.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#340

Post by disordinary »

antognini wrote: post #129
makecheck wrote: post #115

Drinks taste better without straws anyway, and you can be satisfied with a lot less by sipping directly. I was amazed how easily I could gulp down some 32 oz. drink with a straw but when opening the lid and sipping I could be perfectly happy with a tiny coffee-cup size.

I don't like straws myself, but they are better for your teeth since most beverages are acidic and the straw allows the liquid to bypass your teeth.

That's why they make metal straws which also works for hot drinks like preventing Coffee from staining your teeth.
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