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Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

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Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#81

Post by askmeaqwestion »

hateduser2 wrote: post #70
lugg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that people from rural areas or just people in rural areas? Because less people in higher education in rural areas shouldn't suprise anyone. People generally move or commute to cities for higher education and that isn't really news. So depending what those numbers really mean could be significant.

Whether or not it’s surprising is kind of besides the point no? It’s still a problem and to get it fixed the first step is to draw attention to it.

The other poster is saying that the clarification is significant because it would discount people that move from rural areas to the city.

If you're saying that you'd like the higher education to move TO the rural areas, then I see your point. But I think you may have just misread.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#82

Post by JoeAltmaier »

js2 wrote: post #67
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so. The state takes our taxes and runs the schools. The rural areas get little funding for their schools, even for the same size school (the same tax base approximately). No, its city folks voting all the money to their schools. Its democracy, but its not pretty.

Not sure where you live, but in the states I've lived, it's the county or municipality that uses property taxes and runs the K-12 schools. Public universities are are subsidized by the state, but those are available equally to all of the state's residents.

Iowa. They do it differently. The state took over decades ago.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#83

Post by QuarterReptile »

hueving wrote: post #44
VectorLock wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't the world focus on cities? If you're choosing to live in an area where you're geographically separated from other people can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together?

>can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together Yes. Society should always be doing more than what is cost optimal. Cities are only being focused on right now naturally because that's where the rich people are. It wasn't that long ago that inner cities were quite poor and there were people making excuses like you for not investing in th…

Well, we can all be proud that state governments are both handing out disproportionately large sums of money to rural areas and doing so in ways that crushes any notion of cost optimal. This is done, of course, through infrastructure building, in which rural mucipalities beggar themselves to get state matching for road construction they cant afford to spur on unproductive growth that will turn around to bite them with maintenance costs. Matching makes it sound much better than is the case, since in some cases the state's share of the bill exceeds 90%.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#84

Post by Fishkins »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #60
ryanobjc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what you're saying is that, apart from buying goods and services from rural areas, that the rest of the countryside should somehow assist, with tax money, the rural citizens? Strange that you'd say that, from a population historical of voting for anti-tax candidates. Perhaps not you personally. In other words, you'd like to socialize the downsides of living in remote areas of the country?

Not so. The state takes our taxes and runs the schools. The rural areas get little funding for their schools, even for the same size school (the same tax base approximately). No, its city folks voting all the money to their schools. Its democracy, but its not pretty.

This is a myth. Rural areas get more tax money back than they pay out. Rural communities are already subsidized by cities, but their low tax base and inefficiency means they still can't provide the same level of services. That's not to mention that cities can provide services with less environmental impact.

> even for the same size school (the same tax base approximately) This is probably a bad assumption. Rural folks pay significantly lower per capita taxes, on average.

Here are a few relevant sources, but this information is all over the place: https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/817088161906102273 http://www.startribune.com/metro-vs-outstate-which-counties-... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/03/opinion/sunday/why-blue-s...

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#85

Post by diogenescynic »

Well, they keep screwing themselves over the way they vote so I hardly feel bad for them. If you can’t get informed and vote in your own self-interest then I don’t know how I can possible he’ll fix your problems. Maybe they should take their own advice and pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#86

Post by bllguo »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #51
VectorLock wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't the world focus on cities? If you're choosing to live in an area where you're geographically separated from other people can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together?

Why should the world focus on cities? Those who are born and raised in rural areas can't just uproot their lives the moment they turn 18 and start to afford, or even enjoy city life. Because the commute is closer? It's still at least as slow in many places, because of traffic problems generated by tighter clusters of people. The idea that cities are the most optimal is an idea, not a proven fact. Your experience may…

because it's more efficient? The services will help more people because of population density. I mean, the math is obvious. I'm not sure what the argument is. Nobody is saying city folk are more important. There are simply more of them.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#87

Post by forapurpose »

CardenB wrote: post #33
brandmeyer wrote: post #9

"Overall, 59 percent of rural high school grads — white and nonwhite, at every income level — go to college the subsequent fall. That's a lower proportion than the 62 percent of urban and 67 percent of suburban graduates, according to the National Student Clearinghouse, which tracks this." That's not actually all that large of a difference. Its certainly not enough to justify the strong wording in the headline.

I think the idea is that rural high school grads are way more likely to drop out.

That would be the same problem that other students from less educated communities have. I've many times read of research saying that they feel culturally isolated at college, and also at home where few share their experience and many question their decision to go to college. Many drop out.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#88

Post by bduerst »

hateduser2 wrote: post #70
lugg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that people from rural areas or just people in rural areas? Because less people in higher education in rural areas shouldn't suprise anyone. People generally move or commute to cities for higher education and that isn't really news. So depending what those numbers really mean could be significant.

Whether or not it’s surprising is kind of besides the point no? It’s still a problem and to get it fixed the first step is to draw attention to it.

I think you missed the point of their question. The problem isn't that there aren't enough universities in rural locations, which is what that stat could be representing.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#89

Post by forapurpose »

lugg wrote: post #53
johnny313 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more telling statistic was a bit further into the article: "Forty-two percent of people ages 18 to 24 are enrolled in all of higher education, according to the National Center for Education Statistics, but only 29 percent of rural people in that age group are enrolled, compared with nearly 48 percent from cities."

Is that people from rural areas or just people in rural areas? Because less people in higher education in rural areas shouldn't suprise anyone. People generally move or commute to cities for higher education and that isn't really news. So depending what those numbers really mean could be significant.

> People generally move or commute to cities for higher education

I'm not sure that's true. My impression is that most universities are in small towns. In the U.S., that describes many large state universities. I would guess that the cost of land in cities is a big reason.

EDIT: With many large universities enrolling tens of thousands of students, plus employing faculty and staff and supporting all the third parties (from caterers to construction to police to temp agencies), their towns can't be too tiny.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#90

Post by freehunter »

IntronExon wrote: post #45
nugi wrote: post #6

The world continues to focus on cities, while the rest of the people are left behind. I notice a clear metropolitan bias on HN, often incredulous that 1st world citizens are still living in a unimproved state. Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. Please keep in your minds…

Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. The first claim seems unlikely, unless that’s 30 minutes at the speed of sound. I’d need solid citations to bite. The second seems unlikely as well, and given how bad response times can be in disadvantaged parts of cities, I’d wonder i…

>The first claim seems unlikely, unless that’s 30 minutes at the speed of sound.

It doesn't have to be a physical or technical limitation at all. It's a limitation of the cable monopolies not seeing profit in putting fiber or cable lines out there and there's no competition so if they don't, no one will.

As for everything else you've said... I would like to introduce you to the concept of the tyranny of the majority. If the richest country in the world says to its citizens "sorry your school isn't big enough to afford books, have fun in the job market" something is seriously fucked up.

Yes, yes it is a shock that rural populations are treated like shit. I grew up in it, and the fact that it's getting worse not better is still shocking every single day.

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