Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030 • Hacker News Board

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#191

Post by TorKlingberg » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

oldcynic wrote: post #37

Fifer82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have about 20 pound worth of bags in the cupboard gathering dust, 5p doesn't make a difference. They should make it £1 in the UK from now and £5 from 2020. That will make a dent. 2030 is the same as saying "Lets kick the can down the road".

That's broadly where I'd go with plastic bottles - £1 deposit, rising to £5 and compel supermarkets and manufacturers to take the returns. I'm old enough to remember the 20p(?) deposit on glass bottles of fizzy pop. Also when supermarkets were selling milk in glass bottles - and provided crates in the same section for customers to return the empties. This used to be a solved problem.

That is how it works in places like Sweden and Norway. The deposit doesn't have to be as high as you suggest to make it work.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#192

Post by cimmanom » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #154

leetcrew wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paper straws really suck, please don't let them be the solution.

What's the problem with paper straws?

The ones I've used have gone limp after a few minutes. They're also less resilient to bending / pressure than the plastic ones.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#193

Post by jws » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #154

leetcrew wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paper straws really suck, please don't let them be the solution.

What's the problem with paper straws?

As I recall from my childhood, they get mushy if you dawdle too long with your drink. They also are more prone to collapse if drinking a milkshake and you deform a spot on the side mid-suck.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#194

Post by cimmanom » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #51

mbid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

Don't forget the cost of all the carbon burned to heat the water each time you wash the reusable straw. As the other poster said, this is very hard to calculate.

If you're throwing it in the dishwasher with an otherwise already full load, you're not using any more energy to clean the straw than you would be to wash the rest of the dishes anyway.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#195

Post by juliushuijnk » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #183

desireco42 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suddenly this 7 cents are the biggest expense and everyone remembers to bring their bag, which is awesome because effects are great.

I really don't want to give the city more money. They've already upped income tax, property tax (property values have been going up as well), and they played with the sales tax.

So you're ok with it, if the money just goes to the shop, but they are obligated to ask that minimum price?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#196

Post by troyvit » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

By 2030 wow. Great. Flying cars and disposable utensils coming in the same year.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#197

Post by driverdan » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #59

mbid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

I think the meme of carbon footprint has gotten too deep. We need to address carbon at the power generation, deforestation, and transportation levels. At lower levels or carbon footprint, it's better to worry more about how waste is handled. If we're not reducing, reusing, and recycling, then we're probably adding more junk to the environment that still damages ecosystems.

> At lower levels or carbon footprint, it's better to worry more about how waste is handled.

No it isn't. Most countries have plenty of land available for storing waste. So long as its stored properly the environmental impact is negligible. Carbon footprint is far more important.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#198

Post by danans » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #186

brazzy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. A plastic shopping bag weighs about 5 grams. Plastic product packaging does not weigh 1kg, not even close. Second, the shape does matter. Bags are especially bad because they are large, thin and soft, they're easier to be carried away by wind or water, and easier for animals to get tangled in or mistaken for food.

Agreed they have to be reined in. But on the recycling side, they are spectacularly inefficient. They are bulky to recycle - they never lay down flat again. The entire semi trailer load at my recycle center probably weighs a couple hundred pounds of plastic, mostly air. They are very, very cheap to make and lots of trouble to recycle - its arguable the recycle cost is greater than the environmental cost of a new one.

>But on the recycling side, they are spectacularly inefficient

All the more reason to ban them outright isn't it?

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#199

Post by driverdan » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:39 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #111

mbid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How many plastic straws do you have to save to offset the CO2 cost of building a steel straw? Also, are paper straws really better, CO2-wise?

I don't know, but I think C02 isn't the primary concern. Petroleum usage and plastic waste are greater concerns. And if you're worried about the air, note that plastic manufacturing produces considerably more toxic gases than steel production. Considering how many vehicles and buildings are built with steel on this planet, I'd bet that the volume of steel needed to provide every person on earth with a steel straw onc…

> but I think C02 isn't the primary concern. Petroleum usage and plastic waste are greater concerns.

CO2 is the primary concern. Storing waste is not a problem in most parts of the world.

The amount of steel it would require isn't important. What's important is how much energy it takes to make that straw and the other environmental impacts of doing so. It takes magnitudes more energy to melt steel than it does to melt plastic. It would take years to offset the CO2 costs of a steel straw. You also need to factor in the energy and water it takes to clean the straw and the likelihood of damaging or losing it over that time.

The best option is to stop using straws. They're completely unnecessary unless you have a physical disability.

Re: Taiwan ban single-use plastic straws, plastic bags, disposable utensils by 2030

#200

Post by rhplus » Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

wnissen wrote: post #137

autokad wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you ever had your milk go splat on the pavement after it went right through your plastic bag, then yeah, its not enough.

Plastic bags hold about 20-30 pounds, how much milk are we talking?

Many US supermarkets use very thin plastic bags. I'm guessing 0.5 mil []. They're noticeably thinner than the type you (used) to get from UK supermarkets. This site suggests that "reusable" type would be > 2.25 mil.

https://1bagatatime.com/learn/what-is-a-mill/