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Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

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Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#251

Post by jpindar »

redblacktree wrote: post #181
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * The kitchen area, despite being an office staffed with supposed professionals, is always a mess. How does this happen? Have you ever had roommates ? I've never had a clean kitchen and roommates, and never had a dirty kitchen and no roommate (and by my own actions as well !).

I have actually had a roommate and a clean kitchen, though I'll admit it was the exception to the rule. I think it worked out because we set a cleaning schedule early on. Every Sunday, we'd clean the kitchen and bathroom. (switching off responsibility) And this was a couple of guys in their 20s!

This! I miss the cleaning parties my old roommates and I had every Thursday evening (so the house would be clean for weekend guests). It's hard to sit still when you turn up the lights and the music and everyone else is cleaning.

This also worked at one electronics manufacturer I worked at. We'd all spend some time on Friday afternoons cleaning. It was so much easier to find things when they were put where they belong at least once a week.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#252

Post by s73v3r_ »

kerkeslager wrote: post #231
s73v3r_ wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, don't try to put this on the introverts. And don't try to paint this as trying to "get revenge." I'm fine with having mixed spaces. But the extroverts are the ones in charge, and they're the ones that are, again, forcing their preferences, instead of asking. They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us.

I genuinely hope that introverts get a solution that works for them without asking for it. I just don't think it's likely to happen. > They are the ones that need to come to the middle and meet the rest of us. Does it occur to you that I'm an extrovert trying to do exactly that?

I mean the ones that are turning everything to open offices. No offense, but I find it highly unlikely you, or just about anyone else here, would have the kind of influence needed to cause existing open offices to change.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#253

Post by woodandsteel »

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed.

Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it.

However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact on dozens of different things in the program, and generally in bad ways. So you have to figure out a line of code that will accomplish the specific thing you are trying to do, but without having any bad consequences for the rest of the program.

This is a complicated puzzle, and to solve it you have to have the whole program, or at least a lot of it, in your mind all at once.

But few if any programmers are smart enough to keep it all in their mind all the time, so for each new line of code they have to sit and think about the program, look up lots of specifics about it, and then get it all organized in their minds. That takes a whole lot of focused attention. Any interruption causes all this to disappear from the programer's mind, and they have to start all over again.

Now I am not a programmer myself, so I may not have this all right. Maybe someone could improve it. Also, it would be helpful to have an analogy for something similar the manager does.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#254

Post by Havoc »

imartin2k wrote: post #26
nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

They want an office that matches their personality. And apparently, that means beer on tap and lots of it. The office looked like the lobby of a hipster hotel. Over the next few weeks, we showed up each day and tapped away on MacBook Airs to the sounds of Portuguese house music and old-school hip hop piped in through speakers. (“Rap is urban, and so is WeWork,” the company explains online. “But more profoundly, the c…

Fittingly, from the recent NYT WeWork feature: "More than most companies, WeWork promotes the consumption of alcohol as an inherent virtue. " https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/business/the-wework-manif...

Strange notion of inherent virtue...

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#255

Post by matwood »

pweissbrod wrote: post #225
matwood wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like your remind me how fortunate I am work with 'adults' at my current company. We don't micro-manage anyone, and only look at results. People who can't handle the responsibility side of freedom are let go, and the rest of us have an amazing amount of freedom to do interesting work. We even have beer in the refrigerator that people occasionally partake in.

Maybe you work for a video game company? I find this standpoint unacceptable in environments that manage PHI PII or anything else involving people's privacy or financials. I get your point about the "I'm mature and experienced enough to know when a beer is appropriate" angle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself tal…

> Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock.

I agree with you, and I work with people who think similarly. No one is drinking during the day or getting drunk at work even though there is beer in the refrigerator. I was responding directly to the parent comment about seeing people drunk at work. That's completely unacceptable.

> I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock.

I would be much more worried about lack of sleep leading to issues[1] than if someone had an occasional beer at the end of the day.

[1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-sho...

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#256

Post by aarongough »

woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

> Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day

That is far too low of an estimate for any productive programmer. Perhaps when trying to solve some sort of insanely complex bug perhaps?

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#257

Post by CryoLogic »

aarongough wrote: post #256
woodandsteel wrote: post #253

Here's my way of explaining to managers why software developers need to be left undisturbed. Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day. The reason the process is so slow is that for each new line of code, you are trying to accomplish a task, and their are a great many different specific ways to do it. However, you can't pick just any way of doing it. That's because any line of code will impact o…

> Software developers on average write only about ten lines a day That is far too low of an estimate for any productive programmer. Perhaps when trying to solve some sort of insanely complex bug perhaps?

Depends on the type of software you are writing. If you are hooking up a bunch of libraries you installed with NPM on your node project you will be much more productive than if you are debugging a compiler or working on a hardware level device driver.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#258

Post by Retra »

sputknick wrote: post #38
LandR wrote: post #27

I work in a shared office / coworking space. We have 3 desks in a large open plan office with a kitchen area. It's about 10 feet from my desk. Most of the time it's just me from our company as the other devs work from home or work out the main office. My experience of working in this shared space: * It's noisy. I mean really noisy, noise cancelling headphones are a must. Like I said the kitchen area is near my desk,…

> No one talks to anyone from other companies, to the point of awkwardness. Can you share what part of the US/world you are in? I'm curious if this is cultural.

Whatever answer you get, the best you're going to do with it is confirmation bias. Nowhere in the US is the culture so homogeneous that you won't find the opposite behavior down the street.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#259

Post by unreal37 »

enolan wrote: post #191
gambiting wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine worse environment for a tech job than the one where you have music playing out of speakers. Also - working on your laptop? Without proper monitors and upright sitting position? Nope, thank you.

Coworking spaces do not have a magical force field stopping you from bringing equipment or furniture in FYI

I saw external monitors on people's desks at WeWork, so people do bring in their own monitors.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#260

Post by unreal37 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #92

Is this some kind of coastal culture thing, to add all kinds of stupid, non-productive crap to your work environment? Here in flyover country, you can rent an entire suite of multiple private offices in a strip of class B office-park units, including utilities, for less than what WeWork is apparently asking for just one private office. And that's without the insane brand-connected features like having beer kegs at wo…

I don't consider Toronto "coastal". If it is, what coast is that exactly?
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