Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#221

Post by opo » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #98

cup-of-tea wrote: post #17

I "work" in an open office type space. My ears are filled with people on the phone or just talking about work they could do. In my peripheral vision is a colleague and various other movements. I'm here to do only very simple work because I can't think very deeply. Any serious work is done at home where I am many times more productive. For some work this type of setup might be fine, but for anything resembling enginee…

I've worked as a software engineer for over a decade and most of that time was spent in open office spaces. I am most productive in that environment. I don't doubt that you are more productive in a different environment, but it's a pretty big leap to assume that every engineer is going to be productive in the same environment. Different people work different ways, and the answer is to find a workspace that suits you,…

There is pretty much overwhelming research that people are more productive and healthy at work when they have some privacy and don't have distractions. One example - a study published in the Journal of Environmental Psychology of more than 40,000 workers in 300 US office buildings:

"...Enclosed private offices clearly outperformed open-plan layouts in most aspects of IEQ (Indoor Environmental Quality), particularly in acoustics, privacy and the proxemics issues. Benefits of enhanced 'ease of interaction' were smaller than the penalties of increased noise level and decreased privacy resulting from open-plan office configuration."

https://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/science-just-proved-that-...

This article talks about some of the other research on the health effects and other effects on productivity:

https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-open-office-...

>...and the answer is to find a workspace that suits you, not try to apply the work environment that works for you to the entire industry.

Unfortunately, the trend seems to be to apply the open office design to all environments which is hurting people. The best environments I have seen are when there are individual offices with plenty of open areas and conference rooms for people to meet.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#222

Post by scottinseattle » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

LandR wrote: post #27

I work in a shared office / coworking space. We have 3 desks in a large open plan office with a kitchen area. It's about 10 feet from my desk. Most of the time it's just me from our company as the other devs work from home or work out the main office. My experience of working in this shared space: * It's noisy. I mean really noisy, noise cancelling headphones are a must. Like I said the kitchen area is near my desk,…

I mean that's a rookie mistake on the part of the kitchen builders, not having felt/rubber pads on the cupboard doors.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#223

Post by deadmetheny » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:35 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #124

verall wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally tangent to the coworking discussion - but honestly mouth moods is a work of art and Neil is a genius. If anyone hasn't heard it, play T.I.M.E.[0] its really unexpectedly good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsoCe7C4Kmk

I only recently realized that he's also Lemon Demon, who wrote and performed The Ultimate Showdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA

He's also responsible for the Potter Puppet Pals videos, and the Guide to Lord of the Rings/Star Trek/Star Wars races and characters. Neil Cicierega is a hero and treasure of the Internet.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#224

Post by movedx » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

bayonetz wrote: post #184

>A member of the cleaning staff— a young Spanish-speaking woman with a tight ponytail— was one of the few people actually working. She moved quietly, picking up the dirty mugs that people had left lying about and stacking them into the dishwasher. Her shirt was emblazoned with the company slogan: Do What You Love. How about that little gem of a closer?

I thought that too. What a great closer -- speaks volumes in twelve or so words.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#225

Post by pweissbrod » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #149

ryandrake wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also alcohol flowing at work? I’m no teetotaler but isn’t that a recipe for trouble? Assuming we’re not just talking about sharing a few beers after hours. I’ve worked with people who drank on the job to the point where they were working totally shitfaced, and it’s not pretty. If they’re meeting with other teams or customers, they’re going to be an embarrassment, and if they’re checking in code... let’s not even go t…

Comments like your remind me how fortunate I am work with 'adults' at my current company. We don't micro-manage anyone, and only look at results. People who can't handle the responsibility side of freedom are let go, and the rest of us have an amazing amount of freedom to do interesting work. We even have beer in the refrigerator that people occasionally partake in.

Maybe you work for a video game company?

I find this standpoint unacceptable in environments that manage PHI PII or anything else involving people's privacy or financials.

I get your point about the "I'm mature and experienced enough to know when a beer is appropriate" angle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock.

I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock.

Not to mention beer tastes better when youre not in front of your flatcreen staring at code. Something to be said for being present in the moment.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#226

Post by ortusdux » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

99% Invisible did a great piece on the invention of air conditioning and its role in modern architecture. The part of the story discussing the battle for the ideal office temperature reminded me of the open vs. closed office debate. Some memorable excerpts:

"And some architects, like Lisa Heschong, see this as problematic — “you will never achieve a static environment where 100 percent of the people are happy,” she says. “There is a huge amount of individual variation in what people experience and what they prefer,” based on factors like age, sex and the kind of climate we are used to. All of this runs against the idea of targeting a single static indoor temperature."

And

"Brager says we could save enormous amounts of energy by letting the temperatures in buildings fluctuate over a wider range, and giving people more tools to heat and cool themselves. To accomplish this, Brager advocates a take a combination of high and low tech approaches. A window that you can open right by your desk is a great personal cooling device. A sweater is a pretty good personal heating device. But Brager and her team are also developing low energy desk fans, foot-warmers, and chairs that can heat or cool."

I for one am very happy to have my own office with windows that open and an individual thermostat. That's not to say that I would say no to a self heating and cooling office chair...

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/thermal-delight/

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#227

Post by scottinseattle » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

tachyoff wrote: post #143

beejiu wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are noisy, people whistle, walk around talking loudly on their phones. In my experience of coworking spaces, it is the same one/two people that ruin the space for everybody else. What is missing from co-working spaces is some kind of housekeeping rules and enforcement (in lieu of mutual respect).

> What is missing from co-working spaces is some kind of housekeeping rules and enforcement... What’s missing is simple walls. Four walls with a door. What’s missing is privacy and silence, which we have apparently collectively decided is not necessary for all tech work.

    "American office workers have barely looked up while their work quarters have been degraded from sensible to silly. Not so long ago, they worked in two- and three-person offices with walls, doors, and windows. (You remember walls, doors, and windows, don’t you?) In such space, one could work in quiet or conduct meetings with colleagues without disrupting neighbors.

    Then, without warning, open-plan seating was upon us like a plague upon the land. The advocates of the new format produced not one shred of evidence that effectiveness would not be impaired. They really couldn’t. Meaningful measurement of productivity is a complex and elusive thing."

-- Peopleware by Lister and DeMarco

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#228

Post by specialist » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #81

specialist wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I covet a law library style heads down quiet work zone. I’m not crazy about shared office, cafe tables. They have to be library style heavy, solid to dampen heavy typing, pencl tapping, regular jostling.

Have you tried working in an actual library? Most public libraries have WiFi these days.

Our public libraries are now homeless encampments. As the other reply noted, no bathroom / stretch breaks.

Our local university libraries are pretty good, when I still had wifi access.

My laptop camping secret is hospitals. Free wifi, pretty good cheap food, clean bathrooms.

I've also found a few local companies which have their own cafes, which are still open to the public.

I'd probably pay $5/hr to laptop camp. I generally "pay rent" where ever I'm camping with tips, treats, and coffee. I'd rather just pay outright. A cafe, event space, or study zone that allocates hours for quiet time will clean up. I imagine all the vacant 2nd and 3rd story retail getting repurposed. Maybe even mall vacancies, kinda like the board game retailers & hosters are now doing.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#229

Post by loadedanvils » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

nathanaldensr wrote: post #2

They want an office that matches their personality. And apparently, that means beer on tap and lots of it. The office looked like the lobby of a hipster hotel. Over the next few weeks, we showed up each day and tapped away on MacBook Airs to the sounds of Portuguese house music and old-school hip hop piped in through speakers. (“Rap is urban, and so is WeWork,” the company explains online. “But more profoundly, the c…

From that description, it seems that WeWork is to work what Planet Fitness is to fitness.

Re: Why It’s So Hard to Actually Work in Shared Offices

#230

Post by philippeback » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

I hate open offices for being productive. They are cool for chatting and socializing. My pair of Bose QC20 are a must if I want to get anything done. Actually I ended up having my own 3 storey building where I can actually site/lounge/work my way and invite people to come to work with me on an as needed basis. Productivity is at least 3x vs open office. I go to client offices to catch up base and be around the people but productive work of mine occurs elsewhere.