Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website • Hacker News Board

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#101

Post by Feniks » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:39 AM UTC

nabeards wrote: post #7

jstanley wrote: post #3

Please, no. This has to be a parody. > Banks don’t want private account details (like the user’s current balance and credit limits etc) being seen by anybody other than the account holder. This is exactly the kind of justification they'd use. And surprise surprise there won't be a box that says "I'd rather risk somebody seeing my account details than have a biometric model of my face stored in your database and given…

Do people really consider the ethics of introducing tech like this? I guess it just comes down to a consequentialism vs deontology whether someone thinks this is a good idea. And, obviously, if they don't do it, I guess someone else will?

Ethics go out the window when you have a mortgage to pay. The tech industry also lives in a bubble.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#102

Post by Feniks » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:52 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #76

Klathmon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a single trusted party, a blockchain is just a wildly inefficient database. There's literally no reason to use it at that point, just make a simple db of account numbers and balances.

Actually there is. 21st century money. It would be actually possible to use a government's money in various new ways. Think of what could happen in the economy if the government provided flexible and free payment services. (Which is exactly why they'll never do it, but just pointing out that a government-controlled blockchain for normal people would have a LOT of applications)

"flexible and free payment services"

Actually my government already has rules on that. Using my debetcard at a store, withdrawing money from an ATM or transferring money between bankaccounts is free.

Its almost as if we live in 21st century already!

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#103

Post by popcorncowboy » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:54 AM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #34

nabeards wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really consider the ethics of introducing tech like this? I guess it just comes down to a consequentialism vs deontology whether someone thinks this is a good idea. And, obviously, if they don't do it, I guess someone else will?

The article says, > Like any technology, we need to consider the ethics of its application carefully so we don’t build tools that are open to abuse, or worst case, terminators that can travel through time to kill people. So no, they took the opportunity to clear up any fears or concerns about the project and used it to make a really, really scary joke about robots specifically designed to identify individuals by usin…

Yes. This.

The terrifying thing is that this type of application "demo" is being built by smart people who are already fully aware of the _theoretical_ concept of ethical violations being enabled by software.

And yet refuse to connect the obvious dots to the dystopian, anti-human capabilities enabled by the tools they're building. "Oh yes well we didn't mean it for THAT".

WAY more respect (fear) if they came out and just honestly explained all the revenue generating capabilities this could extract from users. Better business. Less disingenuous.

I certainly feel MUCH safer knowing that my software could FORCE me to spend my attention on it for whatever reason. Bravo Machine-Box, really helping make the world a better place.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#104

Post by nabeards » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:50 PM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #96

Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree the implicit assumption here that humanities courses necessarily result in more, well, humanity. In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. I was there to study computer science, not get a rounded education at someone else's insistence. And yet most of the really rapacious, conscienceless, anti-human stuff seems to me t…

> In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. Which depends almost entirely on the university in question. My computer science degree (Cambridge) had two separate courses focusing on ethics/humanities. Year 1 had Professional Practice and Ethics (which starts as broad as "Ethical theory. Basic questions in ethics. Survey of ethical theories:…

> Which depends almost entirely on the university in question.

This is also true in the US. I actually chose to study religion and philosophy in addition to CS. My reasons for doing so aside, I truly benefited from it as it helps guide the type of work I will take. I'm torn on whether it should be required, mainly because I am not in a position to decide what makes a 'better' software engineer.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#105

Post by nabeards » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

Feniks wrote: post #101

nabeards wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really consider the ethics of introducing tech like this? I guess it just comes down to a consequentialism vs deontology whether someone thinks this is a good idea. And, obviously, if they don't do it, I guess someone else will?

Ethics go out the window when you have a mortgage to pay. The tech industry also lives in a bubble.

I both pay my mortgage and keep ethics in the house. I'm not sure this company or dev was so desperate to make money that this seemed like the last hope.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#106

Post by JoeMalt » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #96

Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree the implicit assumption here that humanities courses necessarily result in more, well, humanity. In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. I was there to study computer science, not get a rounded education at someone else's insistence. And yet most of the really rapacious, conscienceless, anti-human stuff seems to me t…

> In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. Which depends almost entirely on the university in question. My computer science degree (Cambridge) had two separate courses focusing on ethics/humanities. Year 1 had Professional Practice and Ethics (which starts as broad as "Ethical theory. Basic questions in ethics. Survey of ethical theories:…

Unfortunately the Econ, Law and Ethics course is still widely derided, even though some of the content is genuinely useful.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#107

Post by username223 » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

hahajk wrote: post #75

nabeards wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really consider the ethics of introducing tech like this? I guess it just comes down to a consequentialism vs deontology whether someone thinks this is a good idea. And, obviously, if they don't do it, I guess someone else will?

"When you see something that is technically sweet, you go ahead and do it and you argue about what to do about it only after you have had your technical success." - Robert Oppenheimer

Good analogy. Oppenheimer was a young, brilliant, and ambitious scientist with the money and power to pursue a huge project. The famous Oppenheimer quote upon seeing the result of his work is "now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I don't think modern tech-bros have his level of insight or introspection, but fortunately the stakes are a bit lower.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#108

Post by candiodari » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:00 PM UTC

Feniks wrote: post #102

candiodari wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there is. 21st century money. It would be actually possible to use a government's money in various new ways. Think of what could happen in the economy if the government provided flexible and free payment services. (Which is exactly why they'll never do it, but just pointing out that a government-controlled blockchain for normal people would have a LOT of applications)

"flexible and free payment services" Actually my government already has rules on that. Using my debetcard at a store, withdrawing money from an ATM or transferring money between bankaccounts is free. Its almost as if we live in 21st century already!

Okay, try to use your card to pay your neighbor or babysit, and tell me again how convenient it is.

Second, go to your nearest store, bakery or whatever, and ask them just how free debit cards are.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#109

Post by Nursie » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:39 PM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #96

Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree the implicit assumption here that humanities courses necessarily result in more, well, humanity. In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. I was there to study computer science, not get a rounded education at someone else's insistence. And yet most of the really rapacious, conscienceless, anti-human stuff seems to me t…

> In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. Which depends almost entirely on the university in question. My computer science degree (Cambridge) had two separate courses focusing on ethics/humanities. Year 1 had Professional Practice and Ethics (which starts as broad as "Ethical theory. Basic questions in ethics. Survey of ethical theories:…

I would certainly consider courses in professional practice, law and ethics to be far more supportive and on topic than generalised requirements to take a certain number of "humanities" courses.

Re: Face-verify.js: Monitoring who is physically looking at a website

#110

Post by Nursie » Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 11:41 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #98

Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree the implicit assumption here that humanities courses necessarily result in more, well, humanity. In the UK, for instance, we have no requirements for a university degree other than the courses relevant to that degree. I was there to study computer science, not get a rounded education at someone else's insistence. And yet most of the really rapacious, conscienceless, anti-human stuff seems to me t…

Libertarians aren’t “anti-human,” they are anti-totalitarianism.

The ethics and actions that spring from libertarian thought certainly appear to be suited more to perfectly rational robots than to imperfect, fleshy and irrational humans, and how people actually live their lives.