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Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

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Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#111
post #43

If you look closely the car is driving in circles. They revisit the same roads many times in just a few block radius.

I also noticed that it was driving 25... I assumed that was 25 km/hr, which is pretty darned slow (15mph) even on snowy city streets. However, it could be that they're running the car in US mph instead?

I would consider anyone driving more in a single-lane street lined with cars and pedestrians on both sides insane - robot car or not. This is a city, not a racecourse.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#112
post #49

technically correct title (the best kind!) - but clickbaity because everyone wants to see a serious test of self-driving on snow-covered, icy roads, ideally with actually blinding, falling snow - at night. This is, if anything, even easier than a non-snowy drive because of the high contrast between the completely clear road and the snow-dusted sidewalks. The dream that the developers, the media, and many of us share…

Have you ever seen someone driving in snow anywhere south of Pennsylvania in the US? This tech, as-is, could probably save millions in damage on minor or one-car accidents in snowy aftermath. Even if it snows once or twice a year, somehow everyone forgets how to drive safely in the snow and Every.Single.Time there is snow the world just stops. Unrelated to this video, I was impressed with my Subaru EyeSight performan…

Survivor bias - literally.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#113
Wonder what's that thing at 1:40 ;) "at turn, wipers suddenly full tilt for no apparent reason, person gives input to the right paddle" - yes, I know that control normally sends CAN messages for wiper operation in all modern cars, and that it wouldn't make sense to release a video with overt manipulation of the system; I have been conditioned to look for side channels though, and this is technically a human giving a driving-related input.

But seriously, what does the car need the wipers for? All the sensors are outside anyway, no?

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact this scenario is easier than no snow, since road edges are so clearly defined

Then it should be easy to show a self-driving car working in those conditions. Somehow, despite this argument coming up in virtually every discussion of this kind, nobody's done it yet.

What are you talking about? Ford demonstrated this 2 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi-xx6ze8

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#116
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's harder to orientate when you can't see the street markings, see the street signs, when your cameras are snowed over. If you tried parking a new BMW after a snow storm and looked out the rear camera you know what I mean. Basically they have to do all they normally do but just the equipment they need to keep cameras and lidars without snow either costs an extra fortune, OR the passengers will have to start…

> but just the equipment they need to keep cameras and lidars without snow either costs an extra fortune Sorry if I'm being ignorant (where I live, below 20°C is really cold weather, and the lowest it gets is around 10°C, which I don't recall ever seeing), but wouldn't heaters be enough?

Not under current paradigm "go to car, start it up, [wait 15 minutes for sensors to unfreeze], go." Might be viable if the cars are 1.shared and 2.at high % of utilization (in other words, the car is never frozen).

Of course, in mountainous winter, I've had wiper fluid freeze when it got to the windshield of a warmed up, running, moving car - had to stop and scrape off what was essentially a rubbing alcohol solution: even heating wouldn't help when local temperature goes to -40 (either scale ;)).

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#117

Wonder what's that thing at 1:40 ;) "at turn, wipers suddenly full tilt for no apparent reason, person gives input to the right paddle" - yes, I know that control normally sends CAN messages for wiper operation in all modern cars, and that it wouldn't make sense to release a video with overt manipulation of the system; I have been conditioned to look for side channels though, and this is technically a human giving a…

The wipers are needed for when a human needs to take control and if a human needs to suddenly take control they need to have the wipers already working recently.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#118
post #33
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately I think it'll have to be smart highways. You could embed a coded marker in the centre of each lane which the car can pick up using RF (e.g. an induction loop). This plus other constraints like GPS, visual-inertial odometry, etc should be enough to localise and remain safely within a lane boundary even if it's invisible. This would work fine through a layer of snow - some of the more expensive ski jackets h…

Seems like self-driving cars will turn into trains and trams by another name.

I would love this! I love trains, we should have never stopped building them.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#119
post #47

Why do people think that driving on snow/ice is going to be a challenge? Compared to recognizing the cars, lights, pedestrians, and their intention, that's pretty straightforward.

Vision is one problem under snow and ice. But the one I think will be tough to overcome is operational.

In normal conditions, your car stops in a predictable way, at predictable speeds. It doesn't slide. It doesn't follow cut-paths in the road. Acceleration is a simple function.

Think that you've adjusted for these parameters? Well, the ground you've driven to has more snow on it then before. Or you're elevation has decreased so the snow:ice ratio has shifted towards the later.

And the above only describes the situation if you are one of the few people on the road. Add in all the other drivers who are acting _strangely_ in terms of performance and psychology. Driving lanes shift depending on where the road is clear, typically centering (bringing sliding cars closer together).

Never mind people FOOLISHLY walking on the road (the sidewalks are covered in snow).

Driving in cities in summer requires a high degree of attention and quick responses to others. But it is just a matter of interpretation and response. Winter driving is an art...

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#120
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California (and most places I've lived), this is actually legal. To complete the turn, you first enter the intersection while the light is green, then wait for traffic to clear. If it only clears after the light turns red, you're still in the right - because only when you fully entered the intersection (on the green light) is considered. See here: https://patch.com/california/sanbruno/ask-a-cop-should-i-pul... Of…

In my country there is very specific provision along the lines "it is illegal to enter intersection if an obstacle would force a stop in intersection and block traffic" which means that in a "turn left or go straight" lane you enter intersection and cannot turn left due to traffic and block traffic for cars going straight making that technically illegal. Human drivers, of course, do this all the time.

If you come to LA, you'll see there's no way to avoid it. The majority of lights are unprotected left turn lanes. The cops here even break the laws and no one judges. Sure, everyone could make 3 right turns instead, but I'd imagine if everyone did that the damage from wasted fuel, smog, and extra traffic would outweigh the few accidents that happen due to cheating the left turns.
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