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Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

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Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#61

Post by friendzis »

kbuck wrote: post #58
kosmet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be impressed if I see a self-driving car making a left turn in a crowded junction without a specific left-turn signal at LA. The only way to turn left in such roads is to make an illegal turn after the signal just becomes red. I wonder how the self-driving car would do in such a situation.

In California (and most places I've lived), this is actually legal. To complete the turn, you first enter the intersection while the light is green, then wait for traffic to clear. If it only clears after the light turns red, you're still in the right - because only when you fully entered the intersection (on the green light) is considered. See here: https://patch.com/california/sanbruno/ask-a-cop-should-i-pul... Of…

In my country there is very specific provision along the lines "it is illegal to enter intersection if an obstacle would force a stop in intersection and block traffic" which means that in a "turn left or go straight" lane you enter intersection and cannot turn left due to traffic and block traffic for cars going straight making that technically illegal. Human drivers, of course, do this all the time.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#62

Post by rimliu »

dmix wrote: post #39
chemodax wrote: post #36

Most of the trip speed is 25 km/h, while speed limit in Moscow is 60 km/h.

The speed limit on narrow side roads is 60km/hr? I find that hard to believe...

It's the default for urban areas, so unless the limit is specifically lowered it's 60 km/h.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#63

Post by DrScump »

kbuck wrote: post #58
kosmet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be impressed if I see a self-driving car making a left turn in a crowded junction without a specific left-turn signal at LA. The only way to turn left in such roads is to make an illegal turn after the signal just becomes red. I wonder how the self-driving car would do in such a situation.

In California (and most places I've lived), this is actually legal. To complete the turn, you first enter the intersection while the light is green, then wait for traffic to clear. If it only clears after the light turns red, you're still in the right - because only when you fully entered the intersection (on the green light) is considered. See here: https://patch.com/california/sanbruno/ask-a-cop-should-i-pul... Of…

But CA law also says you can't enter an intersection without having clearance to vacate it. In other words, if the cross street itself is backed up such that its traffic backs up or into that intersection and prevents you clearing the intersection as you complete the turn, you violate the "anti gridlock" law.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#65

Post by alkonaut »

kurthr wrote: post #43
neutered_knot wrote: post #13

If you look closely the car is driving in circles. They revisit the same roads many times in just a few block radius.

I also noticed that it was driving 25... I assumed that was 25 km/hr, which is pretty darned slow (15mph) even on snowy city streets. However, it could be that they're running the car in US mph instead?

I think it's 25km/h but those streets are pretty narrow and filled with pedestrians. Normal speed limits on those streets is 30km/h so driving between 20 and 30 seems right.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#66

Post by ocdtrekkie »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main challenge here for cars to overcome is that many, like Google's, are heavily based on centimeter-accurate 3D mapping data. (I am not sure where Yandex's sit on this.) So giant piles of snow often means that all of your reference points on your fancy 3D map of the road are now obscured by piles of snow, and you still have to be able to position the car well enough that you know when to look for stoplights, cr…

Is it possible some kind of algorithm could be used to reveal the hidden detail beneath the snow?

It'd be incredibly complex. You'd not only need to factor in the height of the snow, but how snow plows are likely to push and pile up said snow. The edges of the roads after a snowfall are quite varied in landscape as plows unevenly shove piles of snow off the road.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#67

Post by alkonaut »

rimliu wrote: post #62
dmix wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speed limit on narrow side roads is 60km/hr? I find that hard to believe...

It's the default for urban areas, so unless the limit is specifically lowered it's 60 km/h.

The actual speed "limit" on those streets is definitely no higher than 30km/h, regardless of what the signs say. If I drove 60 there I hope I'd lose my license for reckless driving.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#68

Post by alkonaut »

Jyaif wrote: post #47

Why do people think that driving on snow/ice is going to be a challenge? Compared to recognizing the cars, lights, pedestrians, and their intention, that's pretty straightforward.

Because it's harder to orientate when you can't see the street markings, see the street signs, when your cameras are snowed over. If you tried parking a new BMW after a snow storm and looked out the rear camera you know what I mean. Basically they have to do all they normally do but just the equipment they need to keep cameras and lidars without snow either costs an extra fortune, OR the passengers will have to start their ride by carefully wiping all sensors. If there is heavy snowfall, you'll probably have to clean them during the trip too.

Roads that are usually 2 lanes become 1 lane when snow accumulates enough. People improvise to get where they want anyway - the 2 lanes at the traffic light which are normally one lane for turning and one for straight - is now just 1 lane for both turns and straight because of accumulated snow. The AI would need to observe other drivers (and pray they aren't all AI drivers) because stored map info will not work.

As a driver you have to be able to guess whether something that looks like a 1ft ridge of snow is actually passable drift powder snow, or a frozen barrier of ice that will damage the car or get you stuck if you drive through it.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#69

Post by [deleted] »

deadA1ias wrote: post #32
stefan_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought 1:50 was a lot more concerning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx08yRsR9ow&feature=youtu.be... That pedestrian is already in the street and they momentarily stutter then pass the pedestrian with very little room. That and the way the steering seems super sensitive to various snow remainders on the side of the street. It's almost as if it's controlling for its position relative to the snow instead of pickin…

In much of Europe, and I would assume Russia as well, that's a pretty typical scenario. I suspect the car is set up to handle the situation much like a native driver.

[deleted]

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#70

Post by WillPostForFood »

DrScump wrote: post #63
kbuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California (and most places I've lived), this is actually legal. To complete the turn, you first enter the intersection while the light is green, then wait for traffic to clear. If it only clears after the light turns red, you're still in the right - because only when you fully entered the intersection (on the green light) is considered. See here: https://patch.com/california/sanbruno/ask-a-cop-should-i-pul... Of…

But CA law also says you can't enter an intersection without having clearance to vacate it. In other words, if the cross street itself is backed up such that its traffic backs up or into that intersection and prevents you clearing the intersection as you complete the turn, you violate the "anti gridlock" law.

That's not relevant to this situation. Waiting for oncoming to traffic to clear, then turning while the light is red is legal, and orthogonal to whether "there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection". If there isn't sufficient space to turn, whether the light is green, red, or yellow, then you can't turn and are violating the anti gridlock law. If you entered the intersection before it turn red, and there is space to turn, you can turn on green, yellow, or after it turns red.
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