Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 136 posts

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#31

Post by jpindar »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

If anyone was going to focus on making sure their self-driving car could drive in snow, it'd be the Russians. Mind you, self-driving when snow has coated all your landmarks is definitely impressive, but the title made me think it'd be driving in snow . Which it isn't. The roads are, what we'd call in Chicago, "clear". The car is not driving in/on snow or ice in this scenario, which is something I do regularly every w…

Yeah, as a New Englander, that's not what I call driving after a heavy snowfall.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#32

Post by deadA1ias »

stefan_ wrote: post #15
lnanek2 wrote: post #4

I'd love for it to be true, but it's tough to believe that's real. There's one point where a pedestrian is standing in the snow on the road just to the side of where the car would pass: https://youtu.be/Bx08yRsR9ow?t=35s Wouldn't any pedestrian detection decide the person in the road has priority and stop and let them cross? It isn't capable of reading a person's intention to stand there vs. cross or not. The title c…

I thought 1:50 was a lot more concerning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx08yRsR9ow&feature=youtu.be... That pedestrian is already in the street and they momentarily stutter then pass the pedestrian with very little room. That and the way the steering seems super sensitive to various snow remainders on the side of the street. It's almost as if it's controlling for its position relative to the snow instead of pickin…

In much of Europe, and I would assume Russia as well, that's a pretty typical scenario. I suspect the car is set up to handle the situation much like a native driver.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#33

Post by yters »

joshvm wrote: post #22
jimmy1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think CV ever will account for that. I always have thought the answer is going to be somewhere between great technology, and infrastructure to support it. We need "smart" roads.

Ultimately I think it'll have to be smart highways. You could embed a coded marker in the centre of each lane which the car can pick up using RF (e.g. an induction loop). This plus other constraints like GPS, visual-inertial odometry, etc should be enough to localise and remain safely within a lane boundary even if it's invisible. This would work fine through a layer of snow - some of the more expensive ski jackets h…

Seems like self-driving cars will turn into trains and trams by another name.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#34

Post by ocdtrekkie »

dev_throw wrote: post #24
walrus01 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian perspective: This is very clear. Much more challenging is something like a multi-lane highway where the road markings have completely disappeared under snow. I'll be impressed when it can drive from Hope into the BC interior in winter in conditions that a human driver can handle with winter tires and possibly studs, but no need for chains. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=coq...

Perhaps self driving cars might never support highways in places with inclement conditions to begin with, which is totally fine. I agree with the other commenter about "smart" highways with embedded markers to let the vehicle know its position despite rain/snow/mud.

It's only "fine" if you don't live in places with inclement conditions, and everyone's talking about how we're gonna ban cars that aren't self-driving. ;)

And if there is self-driving zones, and non-self-driving zones, you better believe I still expect my normal car to work if I drive it from Chicago down to San Francisco.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#35

Post by ocdtrekkie »

emmelaich wrote: post #25
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

If anyone was going to focus on making sure their self-driving car could drive in snow, it'd be the Russians. Mind you, self-driving when snow has coated all your landmarks is definitely impressive, but the title made me think it'd be driving in snow . Which it isn't. The roads are, what we'd call in Chicago, "clear". The car is not driving in/on snow or ice in this scenario, which is something I do regularly every w…

Not only that, but the contrast between road and non-road is even clearer with the snow. Which may make the auto driving easier.

The main challenge here for cars to overcome is that many, like Google's, are heavily based on centimeter-accurate 3D mapping data. (I am not sure where Yandex's sit on this.)

So giant piles of snow often means that all of your reference points on your fancy 3D map of the road are now obscured by piles of snow, and you still have to be able to position the car well enough that you know when to look for stoplights, crosswalks, and the like.

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#37

Post by dmix »

biesnecker wrote: post #21
brianbreslin wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man I've driven through canada to blue mountain during a blizzard. That was scary. I really have to wonder how computer vision will account for that. Or similarly torrential downpours here in the Tropics.

To be fair to computers I’m not sure human vision accounts for that, we just get lucky and fall prey to survivor bias :-)

> Good thing about radar is that, unlike lidar (which is visible wavelength), it can see through rain, snow, fog and dust - Elon Musk

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/753843823546028040

Radar has been used on snowploughs to avoid rocks/curbs/etc buried in the snow (article from 2004):

http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040302/full/news040301-2.htm...

Ford developed a LIDAR algorithm that can "detect" snow flakes and still be effective, this video shows driving in real snow:

https://qz.com/637509/driverless-cars-have-a-new-way-to-navi...

Computers can provide near "perfect" speed/traction ratios based on active road conditions... which humans are merely estimating based on "feel", without instant direct feedback from the wheel traction sensors, combined with whatever (potentially limited) winter driving experience they have.

Computers can also "remember" any specific location of the route from hundreds of thousand of other rides in the past and of other cars on the road communicating in real time.

In 5yrs I'd expect to prefer putting my trust in any self-driving car on winter roads over a human any day...

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#38

Post by [deleted] »

emmelaich wrote: post #25
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

If anyone was going to focus on making sure their self-driving car could drive in snow, it'd be the Russians. Mind you, self-driving when snow has coated all your landmarks is definitely impressive, but the title made me think it'd be driving in snow . Which it isn't. The roads are, what we'd call in Chicago, "clear". The car is not driving in/on snow or ice in this scenario, which is something I do regularly every w…

Not only that, but the contrast between road and non-road is even clearer with the snow. Which may make the auto driving easier.

[deleted]

Re: Self-driving car on Moscow streets after snowfall [video]

#40

Post by walrus01 »

kosmet wrote: post #28
walrus01 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian perspective: This is very clear. Much more challenging is something like a multi-lane highway where the road markings have completely disappeared under snow. I'll be impressed when it can drive from Hope into the BC interior in winter in conditions that a human driver can handle with winter tires and possibly studs, but no need for chains. https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=coq...

I'd be impressed if I see a self-driving car making a left turn in a crowded junction without a specific left-turn signal at LA. The only way to turn left in such roads is to make an illegal turn after the signal just becomes red. I wonder how the self-driving car would do in such a situation.

In vancouver the general rule in dense traffic seems to be that two cars can left-turn through a stale orange light, right as the light is changing and before the opposing traffic has a chance to start rolling into the intersection from their newly green light.

Sometimes only one car, if the timing works out that way. Three is almost certainly too many. The ability of a car to judge the light timing requires near 180 degree vision and head pivoting on the part of a driver.

Post reply on HN