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New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

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Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#141

Post by coldtea »

detaro wrote: post #60
coldtea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound bad. Most communities survived 20+ years, and even thrived, without any such rules.

A group thriving does not mean it didn't do damage to (former) members or others while doing so, and neither should "but look at what we achieved!" be a good excuse for it. (of course, groups also can have written rules and still behave badly, rules do not automatically solve these problems)

On the other hand, a group having a list doesn't mean it wont do damage to members or others while having one. So there's that.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#143

Post by Slansitartop »

imsofuture wrote: post #131
voidr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us don't want to be part of a community that ejects you for writing: " hug " Some of us just want to keep politics out of tech. We are probably the weirdos I guess.

"Keep politics out of tech" is extremely disingenuous. This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people". I can't even fathom how that's a controversial or political statement, but yet, here we are.

> This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people". I can't even fathom how that's a controversial or political statement, but yet, here we are.

Your summary is as disingenuous as someone summarizing the Republican party's platform as "run the US government well." It drops all of the important details to arrive at a meaningless platitude. I'm pretty sure you can fathom the controversy, but you're just being deliberately obtuse.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#144

Post by Slansitartop »

2trill2spill wrote: post #135
akerro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously the COC is to keep toxic people like you away. Then they did it right, I am most probably not going to donate to FreeBSD foundation first time in 5 years.

> Then they did it right, I am most probably not going to donate to FreeBSD foundation first time in 5 years. You must not care much about FreeBSD if a code of conduct saying don't be a asshole is what drove you to stop donating. Also I'm skeptical you ever donated, you were spreading misinformation in you previous post about FreeBSD and now your mad they wrote a CoC that say things like don't threaten violence or st…

> code of conduct saying don't be a asshole

That's a disingenuous summarization, you're dropping all of the important details to arrive at a platitude. It's akin to claiming "govern well" is an accurate summarization of the Republican party platform.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#145

Post by skookumchuck »

2trill2spill wrote: post #136
skookumchuck wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we're the first to attempt to codify rude behavior.

> I suspect we're the first to attempt to codify rude behavior. Many private groups have rules on good and bad behavior. There's simply nothing new about it.

I never heard of any before about 20 years ago when speech codes started appearing on campuses. I've been going to conferences for 40 years, and the first time I had to sign a CoC for one was last year.

It was simply if you behaved badly, you were asked to leave. Nobody needed a definition of rude behavior.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#146

Post by Slansitartop »

skookumchuck wrote: post #145
2trill2spill wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect we're the first to attempt to codify rude behavior. Many private groups have rules on good and bad behavior. There's simply nothing new about it.

I never heard of any before about 20 years ago when speech codes started appearing on campuses. I've been going to conferences for 40 years, and the first time I had to sign a CoC for one was last year. It was simply if you behaved badly, you were asked to leave. Nobody needed a definition of rude behavior.

That's an interesting observation: a shift towards using a law-code paradigm for regulating personal social behavior, from an informal consensus-based one.

I suspect that has something to do with the fact that law codes are legislated by a select body, which is more susceptible to influence than an informal consensus.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#147

Post by voidr »

imsofuture wrote: post #131
voidr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us don't want to be part of a community that ejects you for writing: " hug " Some of us just want to keep politics out of tech. We are probably the weirdos I guess.

"Keep politics out of tech" is extremely disingenuous. This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people". I can't even fathom how that's a controversial or political statement, but yet, here we are.

> This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people"

That is true if in your world saying or writing the following is being a jerk:

- hug, - smoking is bad for you, you should eat healthier food, I think that food is disgusting

- men have higher testosterone levels

All of these violate their CoC.

If all they wanted is a CoC that says "don't be a jerk" then they would have put that into their CoC and not what's in it currently, like many other projects had done so[1].

> I can't even fathom how that's a controversial or political statement, but yet, here we are.

It's political because it's being pushed by political activist groups and it's controversial because not everyone agrees that writing hug should get you banned from a technical community.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxNdQJSlg54

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#148

Post by akerro »

2trill2spill wrote: post #135
akerro wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously the COC is to keep toxic people like you away. Then they did it right, I am most probably not going to donate to FreeBSD foundation first time in 5 years.

> Then they did it right, I am most probably not going to donate to FreeBSD foundation first time in 5 years. You must not care much about FreeBSD if a code of conduct saying don't be a asshole is what drove you to stop donating. Also I'm skeptical you ever donated, you were spreading misinformation in you previous post about FreeBSD and now your mad they wrote a CoC that say things like don't threaten violence or st…

You should be happy, I care enough to let non-toxic people take care of it. For the best.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#149

Post by ygaf »

2trill2spill wrote: post #138
ygaf wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do people really need to be told what not to do and say like that? There isn't any evidence of it. On the other hand the language in the CoC itself is evidence that it comes from busybodies.

> On the other hand the language in the CoC itself is evidence that it comes from busybodies. And just what evidence is that? You inferring something is not evidence.

Normal people don't rewrite "harassment" in a CoC as "reinforcing systemic oppression". (They might a few years from now)

In fairness, FreeBSD say at the end they lifted material from another CoC (geekfeminism), although looking at it (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Community_anti-harassment...) it's actually all on FreeBSD.

Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct

#150

Post by imsofuture »

voidr wrote: post #147
imsofuture wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Keep politics out of tech" is extremely disingenuous. This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people". I can't even fathom how that's a controversial or political statement, but yet, here we are.

> This CoC can be summarized as "don't be a jerk to other people" That is true if in your world saying or writing the following is being a jerk: - hug , - smoking is bad for you, you should eat healthier food, I think that food is disgusting - men have higher testosterone levels All of these violate their CoC. If all they wanted is a CoC that says "don't be a jerk" then they would have put that into their CoC and not…

Writing "hug" won't get you banned from a technical community. Grow up and realize that context is important.
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