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New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
101–110 of 156 posts
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#102I am always surprised at the backlash against such codes of conduct. One can point to numerous cases of harassment, abuse, and inequality in the tech community. Who is harmed by a stronger CoC? Let's discuss an example where CoC led to a negative outcome for some group.
What’s the purpose of a Code of Conduct? If someone is abusive and harassing others, you can eject them without having some Code of Conduct giving the community permission to do so, and if you lack clout to eject someone for actual abuse and harrasment, how will CoC help you? Do you think that without CoC, people in the community believe that harrasment and abuse is OK, and it’s only CoC that will make them change th…
Let's take a starker example, for the sake of the argument. The building I live in today did not allow Jews, Asians, or people of color until the 1960s (my family would not be allowed in). An explicit Code of Conduct, now in our bylaws, prohibits discrimination based on those categories. Was it a "power play"? Would you make the same argument as above to justify not passing bylaw amendments that argue against discrimination?
The BSD rules are a softer version of that starker example. I am truly perplexed by the resistance to it. It has huge benefits for a marginalized group and marginal inconvenience for those already in power, already privy to all of the benefits.
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Can you point me to an example of "discord" brought about by better rules of conduct? Or to this funding that you mention?" Only my wife's anecdotal experience...she was a full-time software developer and the companies she worked for routinely tried to use her as an example in their "we support women in tech" PR. She hated it and said it felt degrading. Also, there were various "women in tech" groups that reached…
That's a great example. Someone (like your wife) may be bothered by being contacted by pushy activist groups and then even castigated for not participating. We weigh that against systematic income inequality and sexual harassment along gender lines. It seems like that minor inconvenience is worth the net benefit to the community, from which your wife benefits (for example, by being legally protected against sexual di…
No, that minor inconvenience is absolutely not worth whatever benefits you imagine.
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Can you point me to an example of "discord" brought about by better rules of conduct? Or to this funding that you mention?" Only my wife's anecdotal experience...she was a full-time software developer and the companies she worked for routinely tried to use her as an example in their "we support women in tech" PR. She hated it and said it felt degrading. Also, there were various "women in tech" groups that reached…
That's a great example. Someone (like your wife) may be bothered by being contacted by pushy activist groups and then even castigated for not participating. We weigh that against systematic income inequality and sexual harassment along gender lines. It seems like that minor inconvenience is worth the net benefit to the community, from which your wife benefits (for example, by being legally protected against sexual di…
> "It seems like that minor inconvenience is worth the net benefit to the community, from which your wife benefits"
You'd be hard pressed winning her over with those arguments in all honesty
> "...for example, by being legally protected against sexual discrimination in the workplace"
Sexual discrimination in the workplace protections aren't the result of the work done by groups previously mentioned...
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#105I wonder why tech communities need their CoC... I'm a member of a local HAM radio group and we don't have any CoC and we don't have any issues at all. The male/female makeup is about 70/30 and there are people of various political/religious viewpoints, but I haven't once seen any issues over these differences. I've seen leftists amicably talk and work with conservatives because when we meet as a group it is all about…
Perhaps Codes of Conduct are imagined as a solution by people who fundamentally have sucktastic social skills. They think if you make a rule, it will fix it, without them needing to genuinely develop social skills.
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
When "killing all men" type of behavior becomes problematic you will have a point. The problem has been that some people don't understand what "being obnoxious" is and need it spelled out for them. Because men have not been historically a target of oppression, the explanation now has the language that it does, using actual examples / lines of harassment.
And this is what I mean by dragging politics into an open source project where it doesn't belong. > When "killing all men" type of behavior becomes problematic you will have a point. Every time someone "ironically" tweets this, it's a problem. I've yet to see a CoC used effectively to stop it.
Consider that from your point of view the open source project is free from politics and the anti-harassment policy is "dragging politics into it." But from the point of view of someone who has experienced harassment, politics were indeed an issue. The inconvenience to you is minor. You now have to spend an extra moment to consider another point of view. The inconvenience to your aggrieved peer was major. They were actually harassed. The benefit to them outweighs your annoyance.
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#107https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=32582... Never forget
The following is from the very top of a random file in the removed set I clicked: A bad little girl in Madrid, A most reprehensible kid, Told her Tante Louise That her cunt smelled like cheese, And the worst of it was that it did! Wat!? Good riddance.
Do you seriously not know what `fortune` is?
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is what I mean by dragging politics into an open source project where it doesn't belong. > When "killing all men" type of behavior becomes problematic you will have a point. Every time someone "ironically" tweets this, it's a problem. I've yet to see a CoC used effectively to stop it.
Consider that from your point of view the open source project is free from politics and the anti-harassment policy is "dragging politics into it." But from the point of view of someone who has experienced harassment, politics were indeed an issue. The inconvenience to you is minor. You now have to spend an extra moment to consider another point of view. The inconvenience to your aggrieved peer was major. They were ac…
Anyone can be harassed, white males included. There is a very legitimate fear of speaking out against extreme left wing political statements in the tech industry. This CoC is yet another weapon to use against people who don't agree in inherent white male privilege (a concept that is most definitely political).
The politically neutral move would be to not have a CoC or have one that excludes all demographic white/blacklisting.
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#109I wonder how short you could make a code of conduct. Here's my attempt: 1. No politics 2. No religion 3. Don't be a cunt
Your rule 3 would probably create a looooot of drama. So, attempt failed.
> Your rule 3 would probably create a looooot of drama.
I could provide a translation into US English. Asshole? Jerk? Douche?
Re: New FreeBSD Code of Conduct
#110This is great: simple and easy to understand. For everyone feigning confusion about modern professional behavioral norms, just memorize this list.
Or "anyone not familiar with the fashionable norms du jour, here's a list of potential thought crimes as derived by one country's culture (and its internal conflicts, cultural politics, and religious and post-religious baggage) and imposed on supposedly global communities".
Nothing in the list is a thought crime. Everything in the list is an action.