Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 863 posts

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#471

Post by DoreenMichele »

dmoy wrote: post #465
refulgentis wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a statistics point of view, this statement is dispositive: "...decrease the false negative rate, not increase the false positive rate." The interaction between type I and type II errors virtually always have an inverse relationship. You cannot decrease one without increasing the other. It is, for example, one of the difficulties in making good medical diagnostic tests.

I'm not clear why this is being down voted, this was drilled pretty hard into my head the first time I had a job that relied on stats.

I am reasonably mathy and I don't understand the statement. That plus the topic -- sexism in tech generally, especially Damore -- makes me think the motivation for down voting it is probably "political." ie it sounds like it could be supporting Damore's position, much of the world has decided he is an evil sexist pig etc.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#472

Post by InclinedPlane »

ThomPete wrote: post #393
InclinedPlane wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is laughable. You are either extraordinarily naive or you are trying to push your own agenda, possibly both.

If I am naive it should be perfectly easy to point to where I am wrong. I am not sure what agenda exactly you think I am pushing.

Is this not you?

https://twitter.com/Hello_World/status/956166173019836416

https://twitter.com/Hello_World/status/928650370104152065

https://twitter.com/Hello_World/status/867119704569237505

If someone is parroting a Peter Thiel quote in November of 2017 it's pretty obvious what agenda they are pushing.

You, and Damore and so many others, are trying to dress up the regressive status quo as if it's something new, something innovative, something disruptive. It's none of those things. It's boring, it's old, it hurts people, it demonstrably and measurably hurts productivity and innovation, it starves the industry of much needed talent.

You are the hackneyed bad guy from a movie set in the 1960s. You're just a new kind of small minded bigot who wears sneakers and jeans and maybe a hoodie instead of cheap business suits with skinny ties. You're not interesting, you're just the nth iteration of a formula that's been around for generations, for too long. When you're gone the future will not mourn your absence from the industry.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#473

Post by ThomPete »

ThomPete wrote: post #359
Buldak wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you replied to does not describe those figures as alt-right. On the other hand, the very first person Damore engaged after being fired was Stefan Molyneux, who is undeniably alt-right. It's also insipid to suggest that being gay or Jewish precludes being alt-right or otherwise bigoted. What would that make Milo Yiannopoulos?

Stefan Molyneux is not alt-right where do you get that idea from? Milo was one of the most hated people by the alt-right, his husband is black, how much more do you need for him to most probably no being alt-right?. I refuse to believe that anyone who sincerely and honestly spent any time looking into the actual opinions of Milo, Ben Shapiro, Molyneux etc and not just cherry-picked soundbites would make such claims a…

If you want to see how easy it is to be defined as alt-right take a look at this tweet from someone here on HN who now claims that I love alt-right.

https://twitter.com/albedoa/status/964709008559964161

That's how little it takes.

It's really absurd.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#474

Post by stcredzero »

Sabinus wrote: post #461
ThomPete wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stefan Molyneux is not alt-right where do you get that idea from? Milo was one of the most hated people by the alt-right, his husband is black, how much more do you need for him to most probably no being alt-right?. I refuse to believe that anyone who sincerely and honestly spent any time looking into the actual opinions of Milo, Ben Shapiro, Molyneux etc and not just cherry-picked soundbites would make such claims a…

How is Milo not espousing alt right views? He was employed by Breitbart.

How is Milo not espousing alt right views?

He's an active and vocal critic of the Alt-Right. He devoted an entire chapter of his book to criticism of the Alt-Right. Just what views of his would you cite as "Alt-Right?" Can you back those up with quotes? As far as I can tell, he's an amoral opportunist who will stoop to saying vile things, but he's not Alt-Right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blJfibQnTgU

He was employed by Breitbart.

He left.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#475

Post by evrydayhustling »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #310
refulgentis wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His views _as stated_ necessarily meant _some_ women he worked with weren't qualified to be his coworkers because of their gender. You have a right to free speech, not to alienate your coworkers.

Could you point out that specific passage? As I read it he specifically went out of his way to say that all of the women he worked with were qualified.

Two sections:

- In the "personality differences" section, Damore repeats broad stereotypes about behavior that might make women less interested or less effective in tech jobs. He admits these are small effects and shouldn't be used to judge individuals, but goes on to propose policy changes that would impact individuals based on the stereotypes. Institutionalizing assumptions about womens' interests and capabilities is exactly what labor laws are designed to avoid.

- His section about discriminatory practices specifically suggests that there has been a lower bar for "diversity candidates", implying some of his more diverse co-workers shouldn't be there.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#476

Post by stormbeta »

ThomPete wrote: post #344

Reading the comments in this thread is disheartening. It mostly consists of either false claims of what Damore actually said or pre-conceived interpretations of his memo as being anti-diversity without a single, not a single reference to his memo.

I think you have it backwards - this thread is full of people making excuses for Damore.

And yes, I've read it. Just because he wrote some sentences that claimed he's in favor of diversity doesn't magically change the content of the rest of the memo.

If he was truly arguing in good faith, he should've stuck to actual, demonstrable examples of issues or problems caused by the existing diversity practices. There was no need to go on long rambling tangents about population statistics that even he acknowledges aren't really relevant to the topic:

> "Many of these differences are small and there’s significant overlap between men and women, so you can’t say anything about an individual given these population level distributions."

You'll note that most of the memo seems to be implying the opposite.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#477

Post by hluska »

ThomPete wrote: post #359
Buldak wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment you replied to does not describe those figures as alt-right. On the other hand, the very first person Damore engaged after being fired was Stefan Molyneux, who is undeniably alt-right. It's also insipid to suggest that being gay or Jewish precludes being alt-right or otherwise bigoted. What would that make Milo Yiannopoulos?

Stefan Molyneux is not alt-right where do you get that idea from? Milo was one of the most hated people by the alt-right, his husband is black, how much more do you need for him to most probably no being alt-right?. I refuse to believe that anyone who sincerely and honestly spent any time looking into the actual opinions of Milo, Ben Shapiro, Molyneux etc and not just cherry-picked soundbites would make such claims a…

Both Politico and the Washington Post describe Molyneux as alt-right.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/trump-alt-ri...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/...

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#478

Post by [deleted] »

surveilmebro wrote: post #412
Consultant32452 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the progressive left THRUST Damore and anyone who might have similar thoughts/questions into the welcoming arms of the alt-right. I'm disappointed with the "Goolag" t-shirts, but he did lose his livelihood, had his professional reputation destroyed, and only a limited time to cash out. So this socially awkward nerd did what any sensible person would do, rode the wave that was sent his way the best he coul…

As someone who was an actual classmate of Damore, I can attest to his lack of character in this regard. I understand that the tone of his memo made it appear to have come from a thoughtful humanist, but this was a careful deception. In every social or professional encounter I've had with him, he's at least made somebody (particularly women) uncomfortable. In several cases these incidents led to meetings and reprimand…

[deleted]

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#479

Post by stcredzero »

ThomPete wrote: post #473
ThomPete wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stefan Molyneux is not alt-right where do you get that idea from? Milo was one of the most hated people by the alt-right, his husband is black, how much more do you need for him to most probably no being alt-right?. I refuse to believe that anyone who sincerely and honestly spent any time looking into the actual opinions of Milo, Ben Shapiro, Molyneux etc and not just cherry-picked soundbites would make such claims a…

If you want to see how easy it is to be defined as alt-right take a look at this tweet from someone here on HN who now claims that I love alt-right. https://twitter.com/albedoa/status/964709008559964161 That's how little it takes. It's really absurd.

People are throwing around such terms as a means of trying to scare others into silence. Such cherry picking is breath-taking in its sheer intellectual dishonesty.

Re: Fired Google Engineer Loses Diversity Memo Challenge

#480

Post by andrewprock »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #287
eridius wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but he did lose his livelihood, had his professional reputation destroyed, and only a limited time to cash out. Why are you writing this in the passive, as if this is an unfortunate thing that happened to him? He did all of that to himself. That memo created a hostile workplace and Google had no choice but to fire him. The outcome here isn't terrible, it's exactly what should have happened.

Nope. 100% disagree with you. Nobody should be fired for speaking out and/or starting a meaningful conversation. The opposite is censorship.

For better or worse, this is precisely the sort of freedom of association that at-will employment allows.

I think it's probably for the better myself.

Post reply on HN