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Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

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Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#561

Post by dang »

vgf wrote: post #560
ericabiz wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am female, and have run my own B2B SaaS as well as currently managing chat (as part of marketing) for another B2B SaaS. I have seen all sorts of comments like the ones mentioned in the article, and I hate to say it, but many of them came after we got profiled in places like Hacker News (and other tech websites, too, to be fair.) One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real…

> One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I'm sorry, but I literally laughed out loud reading that one. It was gross to have to do natural language processing plus arithmetics? #metoo I hate it when people force me to do arithmetics early in the morning. So gross! Seriously thoug…

Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. Not only have you broken this site guideline:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

... you've also been just plain rude. (Edit: and by adding the "money-hungry" slur, crossing into bannable incivility.) Please don't do these things on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#562

Post by dang »

Orangeair wrote: post #498
sctb wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much will it take to convince the average HN reader that sexism actually is everywhere? Many comments in this thread are lamenting these dismissals, which happen to be languishing at the bottom while this comment as well as the original article are massively upvoted. If I were to draw a conclusion about how the community generally feels about this issue, it would be opposite to yours.

I generally agree with your appraisal here, but it is worth it to note that although those sorts of comments are usually pushed to the bottom of the discussion, they are almost always there on every thread where these sorts of issues are raised. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that a significant portion of the tech worlds holds those sorts of beliefs; there are probably even more people who would post things l…

Sure: the community is divided, as is society in general. That's the accurate way to frame this. What's not so accurate are grand claims about HN being massively one way or the other, which people make all the time as a rhetorical device.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#563

Post by tree_of_item »

ericabiz wrote: post #502
cyberferret wrote: post #218

I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of running a chat agent on our website and within our app, we have never had anything even close to this. Frankly, seeing the interactions on that blog post was like opening a door into some sort of hell hole. Maybe I lead some sort of cloistered life online, but I don…

I am female, and have run my own B2B SaaS as well as currently managing chat (as part of marketing) for another B2B SaaS. I have seen all sorts of comments like the ones mentioned in the article, and I hate to say it, but many of them came after we got profiled in places like Hacker News (and other tech websites, too, to be fair.) One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real…

> One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross.

I'm a bit confused, is this an example of harassment? I'd be pretty sure I was talking to a bot in one of those chat popups as well.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#564

Post by zaroth »

GVIrish wrote: post #463
Slansitartop wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because someone returns your behavior doesn't mean they LIKE that sort of behavior, or are even okay with it. Trash talk has a long history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trash-talk The whole point is for the other side not to like it and get knocked emotionally off-kilter and lose focus, giving you a competitive edge. It's part of the metagame.

I know what trash talk is. The point is that not everyone welcomes that behavior.

It’s almost like there should be a flag where people could match-make into games with varying codes of conduct...

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#565

Post by ThinkingGuy »

alex_duf wrote: post #156

As a guy, both reading this article and the horrendous comments in this thread I kind of want to put a female avatar picture on my social media accounts. Just to see what it's like to be in someone else's shoes...

I was first awakened to the problem of sexism back in the days of IRC. The client (or maybe it was the server) I was using truncated nicks to 9 characters, so "ThinkingGuy" became the non-gender-specific "ThinkingG." And the barrage of "a/s/l?"s began...

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#566

Post by vgf »

dang wrote: post #561
vgf wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I'm sorry, but I literally laughed out loud reading that one. It was gross to have to do natural language processing plus arithmetics? #metoo I hate it when people force me to do arithmetics early in the morning. So gross! Seriously thoug…

Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here. Not only have you broken this site guideline: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." ... you've also been just plain rude. (Edit: and by adding the "money-hungry" slur, crossing into bannable incivility.) Please don…

> Since the parent mentioned that in the context of an overall pattern of harassing comments, you're in the wrong here.

That logic is pretty amazing. It's a brand new world.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#567

Post by ad-hominem »

coryfklein wrote: post #435
Slansitartop wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because someone returns your behavior doesn't mean they LIKE that sort of behavior, or are even okay with it. Trash talk has a long history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trash-talk The whole point is for the other side not to like it and get knocked emotionally off-kilter and lose focus, giving you a competitive edge. It's part of the metagame.

It is also generally considered unsportsmanlike and in most cases does not contribute to the game or sport. It reduces the competition from, "Who is best at game strategy and mechanics?", to "Who is best at heckling away any real advantage their opponent actually had?" For most online games I don't see how the latter could ever be considered an improvement to the game.

Actually, Michael Jordan was a world-renowned trash-talker. He was the GOAT not only because of his extreme determination, athleticism, talent, and skill at basketball, but also (in at least small part) because he could make other players angry, get them to make mistakes and get emotional during the game, then capitalize on that advantage.

When you are playing to win at all costs, there is no such thing as sportsmanship. There are winners and losers. Basically unless somebody is actually genuinely hurt in real life, winning is the only thing that matters.

Acting like trash-talking is not part of the game is being willfully ignorant of the real-world aspects of competition. Referees miss calls. People trash-talk. What is in the rule book doesn't matter, only what happens in the game: whether a foul is called or not, whether somebody cheats and gets away with it, etc. Following honorary "rules" like not trash-talking because of "sportsmanship" puts you at a real disadvantage in a competition. You can do that if you want, but most people are going to use every single thing they can to get any slight advantage to win.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#569

Post by DoreenMichele »

eitland wrote: post #297
jsjohnst wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you hit the nail on the head, anonymity can bring out the worst in someone, especially when they feel there is zero repercussions. It’s partly why I hate the throw away accounts here.

Disagree strongly. And HN is proof that this isn't (entirely) true. In fact HN is a lot nicer than a number of verified name forums.

Wow, what a way to miss the big picture.

The people who shape this forum are mostly not anonymous. Most of the people at the top of the leaderboard use their real name or some portion of it. In many cases, you can find articles about them or profiles on an employer's website or other third party verification of their identity that is far stronger than Facebook insisting I go by Doreen.

Furthermore, you have to have a handle here to apply for YC, the incubator that owns this site and has fostered companies that include Reddit and AirBnB. So being an asshole on HN can be a great means to guarantee you will never have a shot at a successful startup.

The stakes for participating here in good faith can run into the millions of dollars. Anyone with any sense at all will make some attempt to restrain themselves, plus the most influential community leaders will set a better example than you are going to see on most forums that lack such table stakes.

There are plenty of people that don't realize any of that. I seem to be the only person who ever points that out. But the fact that it seems to go largely unrecognized in conversation here doesn't mean the effect isn't there. People who would never state that money is a big part of why they behave here will, nonetheless, behave here because of the serious consequences that can occur if they don't.

Paul Graham has written articles about the YC "don't be an asshole" rule. They are quite open about the fact that they don't want to work with such people. So anyone who has any aspirations whatsoever of applying to YC and 2 functioning brain cells is going to try to not be asshole here.

That has more power than what your public handle is. And I am completely fine with it.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#570

Post by vgf »

tree_of_item wrote: post #563
ericabiz wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am female, and have run my own B2B SaaS as well as currently managing chat (as part of marketing) for another B2B SaaS. I have seen all sorts of comments like the ones mentioned in the article, and I hate to say it, but many of them came after we got profiled in places like Hacker News (and other tech websites, too, to be fair.) One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real…

> One that had a referrer as a thread on Hacker News kept insisting I couldn't be a real person, and wanting me to do basic math like 2+3 "before he would talk to me." It was gross. I'm a bit confused, is this an example of harassment? I'd be pretty sure I was talking to a bot in one of those chat popups as well.

Apparently in this context it is.

Basically, if I read dang correctly it is not possible to disagree, because a) she identified as being female, and b) said it was gross, c) it was mentioned in the context of abuse.

I feel like HN just jumped the shark.

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