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Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

kapwing.com

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Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#311

Post by jerf »

calcifer wrote: post #294
jerf wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of similar events, in a ratio with millions upon millions of respectful interactions. It really shouldn't be surprising when the proposed solution to the former is to endlessly harass those doing the latter and accuse them of sexism day in, day out using the largest megaphones our species has ever constructed that the latter get touchy. For which the secondary solution is then to berate them for getting tou…

> harass those doing the latter and accuse them of sexism day in, day out I’m a man. I feel neither harassed nor accused by this post simply because I don’t harass woman. If you feel accused though, maybe it’s worth taking a closer look at yourself and ask why.

There are plenty of people who are saying implicitly and even a few saying explicitly that it is all men. There are plenty of people who would turn your exact same rhetoric back on you and say that if you think you aren't part of the problem, you just need to look harder, because it is all men, especially the ones who think they have a clean conscience.

So in addition to proving my point about how berating the people who aren't part of the problem is very common by providing an example before the ink was hardly dry on my post, you've set yourself up for attack in the world of today. You need to be more careful.

(Edit: I suspect I'm being downvoted because some people may have a hard time understanding I'm not just being rhetorical about people saying it's all men, and that it's especially men who think they're innocent. To them, I would commend spending 15-30 minutes browsing through the various results at https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=all%20men%20are%... . Not just a scan through the results to confirm your prejudices, but to actually look at the conversations happening, which is why I specified 15-30 minutes and not just "a glance". And while I'd observe it may not be "the new york times" for all those results, it's not just "Joe Bob's Blog & Grill" or Tumblr for those results either. I'm also not saying that every last result will say that, but the existence of results refuting the argument also point to the fact that it is being deployed.)

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#312

Post by spunker540 »

dandare wrote: post #271
thaumaturgy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so glad someone on HN is here to enforce rigorous standards when it comes to this topic, in particular. Because there have been multiple accounts of bad behavior, both subtle and not-subtle, at tech conferences ( https://shift.newco.co/what-its-like-to-be-a-woman-at-a-tech... , https://blog.juliaferraioli.com/2014/08/do-you-even.html ), but those aren't studies, they're just isolated experiences, so we can ignor…

The only thing I disagree with is the assertion that women in tech (STEM?) have somehow different/worse experience than women in general. Or at least I can not imagine why that would be the case - are educated and intelligent men more sexist than the average Joe? I think the main difference is that in tech we are much more open to acknowledge the problem and discuss it.

Its not so much that men in tech are worse than men in other industries, but women are far more outnumbered in tech.

If you assume a constant rate of harassment (say 5% of men harass women per year) then a woman who works alongside 20 men and 5 women (a common ratio in tech) will get harassed more than a woman who works with 12 women and 13 men (a more typical non tech ratio).

And in truth I wouldn’t be surprised if as women get more outnumbered the frequency of harassment tends to go up.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#313

Post by notyourday »

acranox wrote: post #226
verroq wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rude people are sexist" or "Sexist people are rude" is about the only conclusion you can draw here (maybe not even that, correlation != causation etc etc) It doesn't even come close to showing how "sexism is everywhere". For all we know the sample could be entirely edgy 12 year olds. Tell me again how this self-admittedly "non-rigorous scientific study" proves "sexism is everywhere"? It could easily be that more att…

Ok, but do you think those 12 year olds are going to all grow up to be well behaving adults? Or maybe the problems with this kind of sexism are starting very young. If you are right then the solutions still need to be addressed, but we need to start earlier.

I am going to speculate that it is incredibly unlikely that those 12 year old are going to grow up to be well behaved adults. I'm also going to speculate that the vast majority of those twelve year olds do not telegraph their wickedness to anyone in their life or their social circles - parents, teachers, relatives, etc because for last several decades US adult population has been playing ostrich pretending that the disgusting behavior of junior is only a problem for the juniors of those unwashed masses from the redneck South and cannot possibly ever come from the home of the NPR listening, PBS supporting, women's march going family.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#314

Post by woodrowbarlow »

jpalomaki wrote: post #228
cyberferret wrote: post #218

I found this post deeply upsetting and alarming. I guess I am lucky that my co-founder and I run a B2B SaaS, and not a B2C company - in over two years of running a chat agent on our website and within our app, we have never had anything even close to this. Frankly, seeing the interactions on that blog post was like opening a door into some sort of hell hole. Maybe I lead some sort of cloistered life online, but I don…

Some time ago there was a write up about a very similar problem, in B2B context. It was not about chat, but about email. The experience was quite similar as described in this article. [1] [1] https://twitter.com/i/moments/839950218099576832

do you have a non-twitter link? thank you.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#316

Post by alkonaut »

staticelf wrote: post #307
alkonaut wrote: post #191

Kids who grew up in an environment where anonymous interaction is the norm (such as kids who have anonymous social chats at school, or do in-game chats etc) have grown so accustomed to it that I don't think they even see it as sexist, racist, bullying etc. Most would probably never say any of this to someones' face, not out of fear of consequences but simply because they know better. Yet in anonymous contact they don…

When I play online games, in this example PUBG, I think a part of the fun is to be rude and aggressive before the match starts. You're about to virtually shoot them in the head so saying something rude to random online gamers doesn't feel at all bad. Other people often respond back, just as rudely and I think it's hilarious. It can't be just me who thinks and acts like this? Context matters a lot in my opinion. Altho…

I think its a delicate balance of one wants to be cocky and trashtalk before a game in a fun way, and vs being an obnoxious troll.

I see quite a lot of the latter, but I try to play on well moderated servers and servers with votebans.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#317

Post by b6 »

salvar wrote: post #208
b6 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that if there is some reason bullies mistreat other children other than hatred of children, maybe there is some reason people mistreat women other than hatred of women.

If we assume that all mistreatment has the same source. I wouldn't make that assumption, but if you want to explain away the possibility of misogyny being a problem then you certainly can.

> If we assume that all mistreatment has the same source.

What I said doesn't require that, and I didn't assume that.

Actually I think it would be more reasonable if the people who are certain misogyny (again, just so we don't forget what this word actually means: "hatred of women") rules the world would provide evidence of the widespread hatred of women. If anything, I think the evidence is much stronger that people hate men.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#318

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

afpx wrote: post #278
verroq wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am so glad someone on HN is here to enforce rigorous standards when it comes to this topic, in particular. I am so glad someone on HN is here to tell us exactly why we aren't allowed to have a rigorous discussion when it comes to this topic, in particular. It is interesting how you immediately reframe women getting harassed as misogyny. Nevermind women likely get more attention online as well. Let's have a look at…

You have some very good points, but your tone comes across as emotional and aggressive enough to inadvertently turn off some of your intended audience. So, in your case a little ‘appeal to emotion’ may help. Maybe you guys can meet in the middle.

The same could be said about the post they replied to though, somebody made a valid point and is met with a sarcastic reply that implicitly equates criticism of a study with trying to invalidate the entire problem the study tries to underline. Let's be honest, be it here on HN, on reddit, or on twitter, this isn't a topic that you can have a conversation about without people on either side getting emotional and somewhat aggressive.

Re: Why I don't use my real photo when messaging with customers on my website

#319

Post by SCHiM »

calcifer wrote: post #294
jerf wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of similar events, in a ratio with millions upon millions of respectful interactions. It really shouldn't be surprising when the proposed solution to the former is to endlessly harass those doing the latter and accuse them of sexism day in, day out using the largest megaphones our species has ever constructed that the latter get touchy. For which the secondary solution is then to berate them for getting tou…

> harass those doing the latter and accuse them of sexism day in, day out I’m a man. I feel neither harassed nor accused by this post simply because I don’t harass woman. If you feel accused though, maybe it’s worth taking a closer look at yourself and ask why.

That is about as fair an argument as that gag where someone shouts "Hey asshole" loudly in your direction, and makes fun of everyone that turns around, implying that the people that react are assholes.
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