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America's misguided culture of overwork

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Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#181

Post by DTrejo »

Nitramp wrote: post #93
tezza wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a London based person, the 'suddeness' of the interest in Deutsche strategy is palpable. Last years 'sick man' is now the healthiest man on the block:: IF the Keynsian stimulation favoured by America does not work. Further, there are mounting concerns (valid or not) that China may not be the saviour some hoped. If that transpires, the situation will be bleak indeed for the indebted US and good for the 'austere' Ge…

These press articles (and maybe even the underlying Economic studies) are just nonsense. E.g., Ireland used to be the magic model for all of Europe with huge GDP growth, now they are completely broke. Same for the Baltic states to a lesser degree. One year, it's all fairy dust and unicorns, the next year doom and gloom. Seen from some distance, this sounds a lot like people who have no clue at all making long term pr…

Which again confirms my suspicion that Economy as a science at least on that level doesn't hold much water. The predictions might as well be random.

This is not said enough. We are wrong again and again, yet we keep coming back for more.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#182

Post by Ras_ »

patrickgzill wrote: post #69

My personal experience with Germans is that they are hard workers for several hours, then they take off and play. During the time they are working they are focused on getting work done. Americans will put in long hours, but then during the course of the day will play in the form of checking personal email, talking around the water cooler, etc. You can cross ref. this with NASA's finding that programmers who were only…

This might also be true in education (e.g. Finland has the least amount of school hours in OECD-countries, while its results are the best according to PISA).

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#183

Post by philwelch »

bpyne wrote: post #177
philwelch wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"University tuition ranges and often includes housing, which is necessary in less urban areas." Really? I'd think campus housing would be more necessary in urban areas, just to provide subsidized living space in often expensive areas. I go to a rural university, and there are more than enough apartments around--just living by myself, I'm paying less than half for a studio apartment than I would for a bed in a dorm ro…

My thought pattern was more along the line of urban areas have plenty of apartments available off campus. Rent fluctuates according to the local market: my own city is a steal for students right now. Some markets are always ridiculously high, e.g. NYC and Boston. In less urban areas where land is available, universities can easily build dormitories. Of course, I haven't seen more than a handful of universities so I'l…

In less urban areas where land is available, developers can easily build apartments--but in urban areas where land is unavailable, my theory was that students just increase demand on the existing housing market with supply less able to react.

Here in Pullman, Washington, student housing is cheap and readily available just because there's so much room to expand. There's always a wheat field you can turn into an apartment complex somewhere.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#185

Post by Ras_ »

Hagelin wrote: post #3

"How did Germany become such a great place to work in the first place? The Allies did it.” What? I’m pretty sure the European labour movement and the Social Democrats wouldn’t agree with that answer. On a list of possible explanations, I think ”You can thank the Americans for it” would rank rather low.

Otto von Bismarck was also instrumental:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Bismarck.27s_...

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#186

Post by bpyne »

philwelch wrote: post #183
bpyne wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought pattern was more along the line of urban areas have plenty of apartments available off campus. Rent fluctuates according to the local market: my own city is a steal for students right now. Some markets are always ridiculously high, e.g. NYC and Boston. In less urban areas where land is available, universities can easily build dormitories. Of course, I haven't seen more than a handful of universities so I'l…

In less urban areas where land is available, developers can easily build apartments--but in urban areas where land is unavailable, my theory was that students just increase demand on the existing housing market with supply less able to react. Here in Pullman, Washington, student housing is cheap and readily available just because there's so much room to expand. There's always a wheat field you can turn into an apartm…

I can see your scenario happening. Around me, the housing market crashed just after some large condo and apartment building projects got underway. The developers dropped prices/rents, which caused the owners of smaller, older apartment buildings to drop rents by as much as 50%.

Developing in non-urban areas would be really subject to local zoning.

In any event, remove housing from the university cost - e.g. a student living at home - and you're still looking at a low of $10K per year. ($1K/class * 5 classes/semester * 2 semesters) That's not accounting for probably another $300 in miscellaneous fees. Factor in books and it could easily add another $500/semester.

You can probably find some scenarios in which the cost is lower, but $10K is really "bargain basement" nowadays in the US.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#187

Post by philwelch »

bpyne wrote: post #186
philwelch wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In less urban areas where land is available, developers can easily build apartments--but in urban areas where land is unavailable, my theory was that students just increase demand on the existing housing market with supply less able to react. Here in Pullman, Washington, student housing is cheap and readily available just because there's so much room to expand. There's always a wheat field you can turn into an apartm…

I can see your scenario happening. Around me, the housing market crashed just after some large condo and apartment building projects got underway. The developers dropped prices/rents, which caused the owners of smaller, older apartment buildings to drop rents by as much as 50%. Developing in non-urban areas would be really subject to local zoning. In any event, remove housing from the university cost - e.g. a student…

Yes, $10K per year is in-state tuition at my school.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#188

Post by hackerblues »

bpyne wrote: post #178
mattm wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience echoes this. I really believe there is a fixed limit to the amount of work one can do and once you cross that line, you just end up goofing off or procrastinating. And it's nowhere near 40 hours per week. I would say it's more like 20-30. The 40 hour work week is standard because Henry Ford's productivity studies found that for repetitive, manual labour, that was the maximum amount of hours one could wo…

I saw a PBS documentary sometime in the early 90's about the Labor Movement in the US. Just after getting the 40 hour work week, they pushed for 32 hours because it was found to be optimal. Industrialists fought harder against that one so Congress felt it was a worthy compromise to leave at 40. I'd love to find the study the Labor Movement based its conclusion on. My own experience is that I'm maximally focused for 6…

I have the same experience as a mathematics grad student. After two or three hours I run out of focus and need to go for a walk + food.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#189

Post by access_denied »

alaithea wrote: post #150
hammmatt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we are speculating. What exactly is wrong with learning from the examples and failures of other countries. True, maybe we can not generate the same economy as Germany. However, perhaps we could find a way to copy or mimic what is that makes Germany so effective. The article would argue that is their social polices. It is probably a mix of harmful and beneficial. I'd wager their free healthcare doesn't cont…

> I'd wager their free healthcare doesn't contribute as much as their free education, ext. Germany's healthcare system is universal, but not free. Standard insurance is funded by a combination of employee contributions, employer contributions and government subsidies on a scale determined by income level. Higher income workers sometimes choose to pay a tax and opt out of the standard plan, in favor of 'private' insur…

You can also combine the two: staying in the standard plan and paying extra for additional benefits from the 'private' sector.

Re: America's misguided culture of overwork

#190

Post by access_denied »

Ras_ wrote: post #182
patrickgzill wrote: post #69

My personal experience with Germans is that they are hard workers for several hours, then they take off and play. During the time they are working they are focused on getting work done. Americans will put in long hours, but then during the course of the day will play in the form of checking personal email, talking around the water cooler, etc. You can cross ref. this with NASA's finding that programmers who were only…

This might also be true in education (e.g. Finland has the least amount of school hours in OECD-countries, while its results are the best according to PISA).

Gasp, you mean education should count as work?
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