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Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

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Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#271

Post by emodendroket »

EpicEng wrote: post #237
emodendroket wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For instance? I actually think most of it is quite good now. I particularly like PowerShell.

PowerShell is good, if a bit verbose imo (small con, no big deal). The problem is the philosophy behind windows since its inception. On a linux box I can do _everything_ I need to do as long as I have a terminal. Windows is coming around, but it's not there yet. New stuff is better, a lot of old stuff still sucks, but not everyone can dump the old stuff.

On the other hand, Windows' favoring graphical interfaces means that if I'm not looking to automate something, I probably have to spend little to no time reading documentation, in marked contrast to the terminal experience, where even commands I have used many times I can forget the arguments.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#272

Post by blibble »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #10
HenryBemis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry Sir_Cmpwn, but that's happening with W10. Windows 8.1 with the 'Windows Firewall Control", classicshell, a strong HOSTS file (someonewhocares.org), and a Firefox with NoScript/ublock/adblock+/etc and you got your privacy control in order. I do agree with the Linux argument you are making, but you cannot swerve 50% of the global Windows users into Linux. It still doesn't have the best UI reputation (although it…

You can't simultaneously talk about 50% of global Windows users and their struggles with UI and assume they have the foggiest idea how to set up a strong HOSTS file and a carefully secured Firefox installation. How about they just don't use a hostile OS? If you're defending yourself from your own operating system , you've chosen the wrong damn operating system. Also, I don't want to hear the UI argument when KDE Plas…

> If you're defending yourself from your own operating system, you've chosen the wrong damn operating system.

this is exactly 100% dead on the money

prior to Windows 10 Microsoft was at worst known for producing unreliable mediocre quality software, but they were trustworthy (at least for the end user)

Windows 10 changed everything, at the point you're fighting the company that made the OS to not spy on you, not show you ads, not reboot against your will and not reinstall random crapware you previously removed: it's time to switch

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#273

Post by TomMarius »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #163
TomMarius wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about AutoCAD, Inventor, Photoshop, AfterEffects, Lightroom, ...?

Autocad/inventor->OpenScad/FreeCad Photoshop->Gimp or just run it with wine Lightroom->Darktable Here's a few other pretty awesome art tools you might want to know about BTW: Krita Blender Inkscape If we're doing "what abouts" though, what about: freely interchangable desktop layouts native docker support a user-friendly terminal an os kernel that is designed to be malware resistant Like seriously buddy, the GUI desk…

I wasn't asking for alternatives, that's not an option. You have to stay compatible with the rest of the company/industry. Also do you really think these CAD tools are comparable at all?

Using Wine in work is also not an option, it is too unpredictable (although it's improving at a fast pace).

I know Linux has these features and that's why I personally use it. Clearly they're not the focus of other users though.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#274

Post by zeta0134 »

derrikcurran wrote: post #265

There are so many accounts of Windows 10 being installed, (re)installing apps, adding tiles that were previously removed, etc. without permission... but none of it has ever happened to me and I don't understand why. It's bewildering. Maybe it's because I have Windows 10 Pro instead of Home? The only thing I've seen is that it's pretty aggressive about badgering me to restart for an update (but doesn't restart until I…

I don't know how much truth there is to this, and I'll check with my personal machines when I get home (I run Linux at work) but when I worked in a retail space, the apps that were pre-loaded varied based on the OEM. Dell got a set, Toshiba got a different set, Lenovo got a different set, etc. Sometimes it varied based on the particular line, like HP would include a different set of games on their laptops that had touchscreen devices, etc.

I'm not 100% confident on this and I haven't worked in Retail for a couple of years thankfully, but I suspect strongly that the apps that are installed are pushed not by Microsoft, but by the OEM in their recovery image. I suspect thus that if you buy a standalone version of Windows 10, and clean install the machine with nothing else on the hard drive, that you won't get those apps pre-installed. But buy a computer with Windows 10 preloaded, and the sky's the limit, the OEM pushes what they want, and Microsoft makes it difficult to opt out.

I'd love someone else to weigh in on this, because I've been distanced from the situation for a while. But no matter how you slice it, users are getting increasingly frustrated, and I think it's a terrible business strategy for Microsoft. They've ruined any potential trust I might have had for their app store before it had a chance to even take off, and I'm not sure they'll be able to recover. If anything, I've got my eyes on Google, who stand positioned to completely shake up the personal computer space with Chrome OS and its budding Android apps support. It'll be interesting to see how the space unfolds.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#275

Post by JepZ »

EpicEng wrote: post #162
sofaofthedamned wrote: post #157

For the last 15 years or so i've earned my money doing Linux stuff. Before then I was doing VB/.NET/SQL Server etc. January 2016 I worked at a secure facility that wanted an entire system doing malware analysis. The bare servers were running Linux, but some of the software used Windows so there were Windows VMs there. Usual KVM stuff. Bear in mind this is a closed system and the Windows VMs were ephemeral, i.e. had t…

>Windows is done Your use case is very niche compared to how MS makes most of its money on Windows licenses. Windows isn't going anywhere until it's no longer pre-loaded on every machine, enterprise customers stop buying it completely, and Linux is much more user friendly on the desktop. I don't disagree with anything else you said, admin'ing windows boxes is a terrible experience.

> [...] and Linux is much more user friendly on the desktop.

Actually, I am not sure if Linux is in fact user unfriendly. I mean, my grandpa (78) uses it every day since about a year now and hasn't complained once (email, banking, ebay, news, ...; he used vista before).

I mean it's not like you don't have to learn a lot of new stuff if you come from years of windows experience and want to reach the same level of proficiency on a new platform which is totally different. It most certainly doesn't feel good to be novice again just because you booted a different system. But I doubt that it is a usability problem with the Linux desktop as people who have no previous experience with windows tend to have an easier start with Linux.

My primary PC has Linux installed and my laptop has a dual boot with Linux and Windows 10. When I use Windows I feel often helpless. Some program tells you that you need to install the newest update but while the updater tells you that its updating, you can't see any progress. After waiting for hours without seeing any progress you conclude that something must be wrong. So you reboot a few times and start searching on the web. Eventually you find a page which tells you how you can reset the update cache and after that it takes only a few reboots to complete the update. I definitely prefer updaters which actually work and tell you straight away when something is wrong.

My problems are probably just the result of too much Windows absence, but somehow I don't expect that to become a real problem anytime soon.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#276

Post by Sylos »

Amezarak wrote: post #215
TwoNineA wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is MS cramming down my throat some 3D Pain thing, Augmented Reality crap and other apps I don't care about? Edit: Oh and Camera app. On a desktop. Without even a webcam. What is the justification for that?

> Why is MS cramming down my throat some 3D Pain thing, Augmented Reality crap and other apps I don't care about? How many OSs come without any graphics applications installed? > Edit: Oh and Camera app. On a desktop. Without even a webcam. What is the justification for that? Because a lot of hardware does have a webcam and thus benefits from having the app, while hardware without it sees nothing but a negligible HHD…

Coming without any graphical applications and coming with 3D or AR software is a big difference. 90% of users will be able to make use of a simple image editor. 0.1% of users will be able to make use of 3D and AR.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#277

Post by mcbits »

rjbwork wrote: post #99
xeromal wrote: post #81

I'd recommend running Windows Server 2016 or Windows 10 LTSB to avoid the entire mess. I run WS 2016 for my dev machine and I haven't had any issues and I don't have to deal with the damned Windows Store.

Isn't that a bit expensive?

Not sure about this, but you may be able to run the 180-day trial as much as you want, as long as you're willing to reinstall every 180 days. I installed the 2008 and 2012 trials several times over the years and got the full trial each time, but I haven't tried it back-to-back after expiration.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#278

Post by dvtv75 »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #23
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #2

When you choose Windows, the computer uses you. When you choose Linux, you use the computer. Stop complaining and start switching. It should be apparent by now that Microsoft isn't going to stop their bad behavior.

I'd switch to Linux in the blink of an eye if I didn't have to worry about my games working. WINE is great and all, but it's still not 100% compatible.

I know this isn't exactly what you were saying, but I recently bought myself the (ancient) Star Wars Empire at War games, and they run better under WINE than they did under Windows 10. There's some problem that makes it drop frames and become unplayable in Windows.

Moreso on topic, I actually do much of my gaming in Linux, I only have a couple of AAA titles that I use Windows for (Elite: Dangerous and AC:Origins), everything else is Linux (KSP, X-Com, X-Com 2, RimWorld).

I often try and make a point of emailing a "Thanks for supporting Linux!" to the companies who release the ones I want to play, just so they know we are out there.

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#279

Post by jenscow »

emodendroket wrote: post #208
sofaofthedamned wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But apart from AD the rest of Windows is primitive compared to the competition. Windows usage will decline - Azure will increase - it's all a case of how it works out for Microsoft in the end.

For instance? I actually think most of it is quite good now. I particularly like PowerShell.

Powershell is available on Linux

Re: Hey Microsoft, Stop Installing Apps on My PC Without Asking

#280

Post by x3sphere »

I only run Windows inside a VM now. The main reason I didn't switch to Linux sooner was because of games, but GPU passthrough works well enough now that I can dedicate my main GPU to a VM and get close to native performance (within 3-5%). Currently I have a Vega 64 configured for passthrough on a Threadripper 1950X system and it runs great. It's much more convenient than dual booting.
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